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*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Paladin/Ur-Priest/Bone Knight
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<blockquote data-quote="Persiflage" data-source="post: 5344212" data-attributes="member: 73597"><p>Not so, or "not quite so" at any rate.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Now... strictly speaking I don't think this applies to Corwin's situation as the rules are explicitly referring to turning, rather than rebuking, undead. They also explicitly refer to "Cleric" and "Paladin" rather than "Ur-Priest" and "variant Paladin of Tyranny" so it wouldn't be unreasonable to disallow them stacking by RAW. On the other hand, when that rule was written there were no classes other than Cleric and Paladin that <em>could</em> turn undead, and no classes other than Cleric that could rebuke. So, given that a standard Cleric and standard Paladin do stack, I think it'd be a bit harsh not to allow turning and rebuking to stack in other classes which grant the ability. Not RAW, just an opinion.</p><p></p><p>In the case of Bone Knight, well:</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Paladin of Tyranny gives you an "effective cleric level" for rebuking undead, so it indisputably stacks with the prestige class. Ur Priest likewise gives you an effective cleric level and would thus stack. The only question is whether or not Paladin and Ur Priest stack... and - in my view - it'd be a bit much not to allow it, even though a RAW interpretation could reasonably say not.</p><p></p><p>That said, you don't really <em>want</em> Paladin levels to stack for rebuking in this build because you only have two of them, which means that your effective cleric level for rebuking would be -1! Of course, you could stack your Bone Knight levels onto Paladin rather than Ur Priest for the purpose of determining effective cleric level for rebuking, but to what end?</p><p></p><p>Paladin of Tyrrany (LE) 2/Human Paragon 3/Ur Priest 2/Bone Knight 10 would work out like this if you "stack" Paladin in this instance:</p><p></p><p>-1 effective cleric from PoT, +2 from UrP, +10 from BK added to UrP = effective Cleric level of 11 for rebuking.</p><p></p><p>It doesn't make any difference whether you add the BK levels to PoT or UrP; you end up with a rebuking level of 11. You're actually better off not counting the Paladin of Tyranny: excluding it nets you an effective rebuking level of 12 <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin :D" data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /></p><p></p><p>So, that's question 1) answered.</p><p></p><p><strong>Question 2)</strong> Nobody knows. Seriously. It's pretty much the same argument as whether Legacy Champion can extend a 10-level prestige class beyond 10th level. My gut reaction would be to say that the rules on 10-level PrC's apply, and that you can't extend the class until you're a footnote in the Epic Level Jokebook... I could link to plenty of conversations that agree with this standpoint overall but it would be intellectually dishonest as I could probably also link to conversations where the consensus was otherwise if I cared to search for them.</p><p></p><p>Ask your DM and hope <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></p><p></p><p>[As an aside, <a href="http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=3951.0" target="_blank">this</a> made me laugh: I <em>swear</em> I hadn't read it before writing my answer to this question]</p><p></p><p><strong>Question 3)</strong> Only by dipping another class. I assume you've got solid reasons for not starting Cleric, and that's the only way I can think of to get rebuking so early in the build.</p><p></p><p><strong>Question 4) </strong> You definitely want to finish the spellcasting progression. As to what to do with the rest, you've got a lot of solid options. Personally, I'd consider mixing a couple of levels of Master of Shrouds in there (if you can spare the feats) for extra undead-mastering lulz. On the other hand, despite the free Extra Rebuking and advancement of rebuke undead (and spellcasting), they're more about summoning undead than commanding battalions of them.</p><p></p><p>Maybe if you could give a few more specifics about your character's "flavour"? What's the main thing you want them to be doing?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Persiflage, post: 5344212, member: 73597"] Not so, or "not quite so" at any rate. Now... strictly speaking I don't think this applies to Corwin's situation as the rules are explicitly referring to turning, rather than rebuking, undead. They also explicitly refer to "Cleric" and "Paladin" rather than "Ur-Priest" and "variant Paladin of Tyranny" so it wouldn't be unreasonable to disallow them stacking by RAW. On the other hand, when that rule was written there were no classes other than Cleric and Paladin that [I]could[/I] turn undead, and no classes other than Cleric that could rebuke. So, given that a standard Cleric and standard Paladin do stack, I think it'd be a bit harsh not to allow turning and rebuking to stack in other classes which grant the ability. Not RAW, just an opinion. In the case of Bone Knight, well: Paladin of Tyranny gives you an "effective cleric level" for rebuking undead, so it indisputably stacks with the prestige class. Ur Priest likewise gives you an effective cleric level and would thus stack. The only question is whether or not Paladin and Ur Priest stack... and - in my view - it'd be a bit much not to allow it, even though a RAW interpretation could reasonably say not. That said, you don't really [I]want[/I] Paladin levels to stack for rebuking in this build because you only have two of them, which means that your effective cleric level for rebuking would be -1! Of course, you could stack your Bone Knight levels onto Paladin rather than Ur Priest for the purpose of determining effective cleric level for rebuking, but to what end? Paladin of Tyrrany (LE) 2/Human Paragon 3/Ur Priest 2/Bone Knight 10 would work out like this if you "stack" Paladin in this instance: -1 effective cleric from PoT, +2 from UrP, +10 from BK added to UrP = effective Cleric level of 11 for rebuking. It doesn't make any difference whether you add the BK levels to PoT or UrP; you end up with a rebuking level of 11. You're actually better off not counting the Paladin of Tyranny: excluding it nets you an effective rebuking level of 12 :D So, that's question 1) answered. [B]Question 2)[/B] Nobody knows. Seriously. It's pretty much the same argument as whether Legacy Champion can extend a 10-level prestige class beyond 10th level. My gut reaction would be to say that the rules on 10-level PrC's apply, and that you can't extend the class until you're a footnote in the Epic Level Jokebook... I could link to plenty of conversations that agree with this standpoint overall but it would be intellectually dishonest as I could probably also link to conversations where the consensus was otherwise if I cared to search for them. Ask your DM and hope ;) [As an aside, [URL="http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=3951.0"]this[/URL] made me laugh: I [I]swear[/I] I hadn't read it before writing my answer to this question] [B]Question 3)[/B] Only by dipping another class. I assume you've got solid reasons for not starting Cleric, and that's the only way I can think of to get rebuking so early in the build. [B]Question 4) [/B] You definitely want to finish the spellcasting progression. As to what to do with the rest, you've got a lot of solid options. Personally, I'd consider mixing a couple of levels of Master of Shrouds in there (if you can spare the feats) for extra undead-mastering lulz. On the other hand, despite the free Extra Rebuking and advancement of rebuke undead (and spellcasting), they're more about summoning undead than commanding battalions of them. Maybe if you could give a few more specifics about your character's "flavour"? What's the main thing you want them to be doing? [/QUOTE]
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