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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Persiflage" data-source="post: 5345454" data-attributes="member: 73597">Honestly?  It's hard for me to comment in an unbiased way because I think Ur-Priests are weird.  Mechanical considerations aside, the flavour of the class makes no sense to me.  Even handwaving the fact that they somehow wrest divine power straight out of the gods' pockets without the gods consenting to same, they're still just bizarre.  So they steal power from deities... and this apparently makes them evil.  Possibly even Evil.  Certainly they have to have Spell Focus (Evil), which is not only a pointless waste of everybody's time but confusing as hell.There are at least as many Evil gods as there are Good ones.  Surely stealing power from an Evil god is a good thing, no?  The whole point about most D&D pantheons is that they're a zero-sum game, alignment-wise.  At worst, Ur-Priests are Neutral and should have to take Spell Focus (Fence Sitting) or some such.  And if you want to take the class - assuming your DM is playing the "Special" considerations for PrC entry, which many don't - you have to be trained by an Ur-Priest.What the hell is up with that?  An entire prestige class full of people who are "abominations" to clerics of any alignment, described as "canny and cunning" and they train people?  How?  WHY?  Surely the more people who are stealing power from the gods, the more likely it is that the gods are  going to notice: and then they're going to be upset.Where's their paranoia?  They'd have some, surely: if clerics know enough about Ur-Priests to think of them as abominations, then the divine-power-burgling community have got to be pretty damn careful about revealing their presence.  They are, after all, up against a very large number of people whose raison d'être is to spend their days communing with omniscient supernatural beings Who Hate Ur-Priests.  You think that'd give Clerics the edge, and Ur-Priests the social inclinations of a crocodile with toothache and the life-expectancy of a glass tennis racquet.If I were an Ur-Priest - you know, just <a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ForTheEvulz" target="_blank">for the Evulz</a> - and I heard some gloomy bugger in a pub sounding off about how he hated the gods and would do anything to strike back at them, I wouldn't walk up and offer him an apprenticeship.  I'd assume he was some sort of god-bothering sympathiser of the oppresive deistic theocracy looking to flush right-thinking, independent folk such as myself out from cover.  At the very least I'd wait until I'd seen him murder a few clerics from both ends of the alignment spectrum before offering him any tips on the best way to walk off with godly mojo.  More likely, I'd see him safely digesting in the bellies of my ghoulish minions before the stupid sod drew any attention to me.Ur-Priests.  Bah.Oh, er...  sorry.  That wasn't exactly what you were looking for, was it?  Very well: I say just go with the Cleric/Prestige Evil Paladin/Bone Knight route.  That way you don't have to take any stupid feats, don't have to take a bunch of skills you Just Don't Care about and won't be in danger of disappearing in a puff of logic the first time you cast commune.</blockquote>

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