Paladins and Prestige-classes

[irdeggman]

It depends on what is meant by "ex-" and the rules are different for each of the two classes. Basically the RAW defines "ex-" as no longer being able to advance in that class. That is the single commonality in all the text/conditions.

A paladin loses all benefits if he ceases to be lawful good. . . . .
But he retains those abilities if he changes classes, he just can no longer advance as a paladin.

A monk on the other hand retains all abilities if he becomes non-lawful but can no nonger advance as a monk. The same applies if he changes classes.



They cannot however continue to advance in the paladin or monk class unless the prestige class so states (the ones that allow it state so). There are feats (specifically in Eberron) that allow paladins and monks to freely multiclass with another class.


SRD

Ex-Paladins
A paladin who ceases to be lawful good, who willfully commits an evil act, or who grossly violates the code of conduct loses all paladin spells and abilities (including the service of the paladin’s mount, but not weapon, armor, and shield proficiencies). She may not progress any farther in levels as a paladin. She regains her abilities and advancement potential if she atones for her violations (see the atonement spell description), as appropriate.

Like a member of any other class, a paladin may be a multiclass character, but multiclass paladins face a special restriction. A paladin who gains a level in any class other than paladin may never again raise her paladin level, though she retains all her paladin abilities.

Ex-Monks
A monk who becomes nonlawful cannot gain new levels as a monk but retains all monk abilities.

Like a member of any other class, a monk may be a multiclass character, but multiclass monks face a special restriction. A monk who gains a new class or (if already multiclass) raises another class by a level may never again raise her monk level, though she retains all her monk abilities.

 

[the Jester]

If monks or paladins take prestige classes, do they become ex-paladins / monks? Apart, of cause from monks out of an Oriental Adventures campaign...

No, but they usually can't advance any further as a paladin or monk. There are exceptions, however- these are usually spelled out within the text of the prestige class.

 

[Wavestone]

Ah.. missed that thing about the monk.

I think we're on to the same thing.. there's two different ways to be former paladins. We're calling it different things, I think.

One ex-pally breaks with the paladin ethos, thus having powers revoked (and probably different alignment as well..) This is what I call an ex-paladin (IMC).

The other "ex-pally" still adheres to the ethos(alignment), but chooses to not stay single-classed paladin, leaving for another class - perhaps fighter or cleric. I dont call this one an ex-paladin (IMC), just a multiclassed paladin.

I see that others call both categories ex-paladins.. and I might even be wrong according to the SRD. Nevertheless, using the free multiclassing houserule eliminates category two - and then, ex-paladins are only fallen paladins. Simpler. Yes, I use that houserule, BTW..

 

[irdeggman]

I see that others call both categories ex-paladins.. and I might even be wrong according to the SRD. Nevertheless, using the free multiclassing houserule eliminates category two - and then, ex-paladins are only fallen paladins. Simpler. Yes, I use that houserule, BTW..

Ahh be careful.

Fallen paladins are different.

See the SRD under Blackguard prestige class:

Fallen Paladins
Blackguards who have levels in the paladin class (that is to say, are now ex-paladins) gain extra abilities the more levels of paladin they have.
A fallen paladin who becomes a blackguard gains all of the following abilities that apply, according to the number of paladin levels the character has.
1–2: Smite good 1/day. (This is in addition to the ability granted to all blackguards at 2nd level.
3–4: Lay on hands. Once per day, the blackguard can use this supernatural ability to cure himself or his fiendish servant of damage equal to his Charisma bonus x his level.
5–6: Sneak attack damage increased by +1d6. Smite good 2/day.
7–8: Fiendish summoning. Once per day, the blackguard can use a summon monster I spell to call forth an evil creature. For this spell, the caster level is double the blackguard’s class level.
9–10: Undead companion. In addition to the fiendish servant, the blackguard gains (at 5th level) a Medium-size skeleton or zombie as a companion. This companion cannot be turned or rebuked and gains all special bonuses as a fiendish servant when the blackguard gains levels. Smite good 3/day.
11 or more: A fallen paladin of this stature immediately gains a blackguard level for each level of paladin he trades in.
The character level of the character does not change. With the loss of paladin levels, the character no longer gains as many extra abilities for being a fallen paladin.

A "fallen paladin" is generally something more than an ex-paladin and most likely more than one that transgresses. Since one who transgresses (and loses abilities) can regain them by atonement.

The Blackguard specifically talks about fallen paladins and (having to be evil as a prerequisite for the prestige class in the first place).


Now as I recall the entire what is a "fallen paladin" issue has come up many tiems in the past since the term is not really defined in the RAW only referenced in places like the Blackguard.

 

[Wavestone]

Ahh be careful.

Fallen paladins are different.

See the SRD under Blackguard prestige class:

Oops.. Slip of the tongue here. I used the word fallen in the context fallen from paladinhood.. not necessarily "going for blackguard". But you're probably right there.

So three official categories then?

*Remaining LG but taking class levels other than paladin --> still have the abilities, but cannot advance in paladin any more. Apparently this is called ex-paladin too.

*Losing the paladinhood due to breach of ethos/alignment, but not necessary evil --> ex-paladin.

*Going eeevil! --> fallen paladin, and ex-paladin as well. Probably Blackguard next.

Sounds reasonable?
IMC only the last two categories exist due to multiclass houserule, then..

 

[glass]

If monks or paladins take prestige classes, do they become ex-paladins / monks? Apart, of cause from monks out of an Oriental Adventures campaign...

No. They can no longer advance as paladins/monks, but they don't become ex-paladins/monks with all the losses that would entail.

EDIT: Actually, as pointed out above, monks don't lose anything for becoming ex-monks, so the distinction is academic, but still exists IMO.


glass.