Paladins in 3.5, why?

[LuYangShih]

I really think the "kill them all and let my god sort them out" approach is not very admirable. It seems far more LN/LE than LG. I would think a Paladin would be more discriminating than that. Tell me this, at least... Upon encountering a small child who detected as evil (slightly), what would the Paladins Corinth and Shark describe do? Kill the child? Hardly befitting a Paladin, I would say.

 

[LuYangShih]

Double post.

 

[Hardhead]

However, these people were not just called later in life; they were often called in their youth, at a time roughly equating to first level. Taing this option away invalidates a very good roleplaying experience, that of the called warrior.

I couldn't agree with this more.

However, I strongly disagree with the notion that Paladins should be opened to other alignments. The truth is, the Paladin fits a very common fantasy archtype. The Superman-esque (in terms of morals) uber-good, protecter of the weak and upholder of Just Authority-type. This is an archtype that has been tapped time and time again, down through the ages.

And being god-chosen is not enough. He must be good. And he must be lawful. It's *part* of the Archtype! What would Superman be if he suddenly developed a CG bent, and hated authority? Well, he'd be a lot more like Wolverine (to keep the comic book analogy). But, while both those are important archtypes (the chaotic loner who fights for good, and the lawful authority figure who fights for good), they represent very different things.

And, yes, you might argue that the Paladin is a psudo-Christian Crusader. But let's be honest - you could much more easily argue the monk is setting specific. After all, with only minor changes to his code, a Paladin can represent a Samuri in a eastern setting, but there is *no* monk-like western archtype.

And the samuri is a good example of what I'm talking about. The Paladin is not some random class. It's a VITAL archtype found is every culture - whether you call him a Paladin or a Samuri or whatever. I like the flavor of the paladin just the way it is - Lawful, Good, and a core class that felt "the calling" from an early age.

 

[LuYangShih]

Samurai, not Samuri. Otherwise, I generally agree. The Paladin is a good core class, and has several precedents in fantasy and myth.

 

[reapersaurus]

Tell me this, at least... Upon encountering a small child who detected as evil (slightly), what would the Paladins Corinth and Shark describe do? Kill the child? Hardly befitting a Paladin, I would say.

You are opening up a can of worms with this question.

Does anyone have a link to the old "Can a Paladin kill an orc baby?" threads?

But to give you a hint:
SHARK's paladins are the grim and gritty, kill-em-all-and-let-god-sort-'em-out type.
If they hesitate for one second in the fight against evil, they will die (that's their approach).

But SHARK might just answer this, as it is his question....

But I think this eternal question really boils down to what _in your campaign_ it MEANS to be "detecting as evil (slightly)."

 

[Lamoni]

It is fun to listen to all the different interpretations of the Paladin class... and people say that it is too narrow.

Actually I would argue that many of the interpretations are indeed house rules. I think that it is possible to be lawful good, not lie to anyone including your enemies, and still have a lot of variation. I do disagree with GM's that try to trap Paladin's, but it is sometimes good to set up situations to make sure the person is actually role-playing a Paladin.

I just thought that I would mention that the description offered a few times sounds more like a chaotic good person rather than a lawful good. Many people think of holy warrior, and think only of rooting out evil while forgetting the lawful alignment.

You would stop a person for stealing a loaf of bread to feed his family, not because the act registered as evil, but because stealing is unlawful.

Running through a town, killing everyone that you detected as evil would also not be appropriate. That is murder and it is still against the law to do that. However, if any evil person resisted arrest, or attacked the Paladin first, I am sure he/she would have no qualms about killing them. Or if the setting was outside a city and therefore not under the city's jurisdiction, let all evil die.

Anyway, I love the Paladin class. There are a lot of restrictions, but they are very playable and they offer many benefits too.