Paladins Should Not Cast Spells

[paladinm]

In BD&D, paladin and ranger ("druidic knight") are Still "prestige classes". You can't become one until you hit 9th level as a fighter.

 

[tuxgeo]

Here is my issue with spell failure. The paladin has been faithful and a good servant to his god. He needs that spell to save his or someone else life or to complete an important mission. So why does his god choose that moment to be a dick?

The story teller in me just screams in agony over this.

This is a good point; and I'm glad I waited until morning to reply. (You're right, "story teller" makes much more sense.)

 

[Elf Witch]

This is a good point; and I'm glad I waited until morning to reply. (You're right, "story teller" makes much more sense.)

Auto correct can be a pain in the butt..

 

[Anguirus]

So if I read you right, you're equating spellcasting with implement use and the pre-4e trappings of verbal and somatic components?

Yep. That's what spellcasting is in most editions, and what it is to a lot of players. Remember how lots of people think 5E is "bringing back the wizard," i.e. the "spellcasting" wizard in 4E was not really such at all?

I think those players have a point. 4E spells were only trivally different from other powers; they were arcane powers.

We know for a fact that a 5E wizard can take a feat and get an at-will attack power. That's not a spell.

In that case, a paladin who can channel holy power through his sword to smite his enemies is okay, but one who calls out to his deity to bless his weapon at the start of a fight is not?

Both are great, very thematic. IMO the latter sounds like a mechanical thing that could annoy me. The litany of pre-battle buffs is fun in Baldur's Gate II, not always at the tabletop.

What about at-will prayers that enhance his fighting ability (say, granting a bonus to attack rolls or damage rolls or AC)? What if they were mechanically similar to Essentials fighter stances in that the paladin only has to pray once (with a minor action) and he continues to enjoy the benefit until he "switches" blessings with another prayer (and another minor action)?

Sounds nifty.

How would you distinguish between a lay on hands ability that can be used once per day and a cure X wounds spell? Would it be on the basis that one requires a verbal prayer, somatic gestures and a holy symbol, and the other does not?

Same way other editions did it. They are different abilities. One is supposed to be highly useful throughout the life of a character, the other isn't. And yes, lay on hands should simply be that. The paladin never learned how to do it, it's just an awesome thing he can do if he concentrates and keeps saying his prayers at night.

What was always funny to me was mid-level paladins who had both cure spells and lay on hands...

 

[satori01]

Using a deity as a Vancian spellbook just feels very undivine to me.

It all just depends on perspective. A D&D cleric based off a Catholic priest, would know most of the main prayers, but saying a prayer is not the same as casting a spell. Grace over dinner might have the same words as casting Purify Food and Drink, but at dinner the priest has no desire to call upon the overwhelming power of divinity.

The concept of the power of god(s) , being overwhelming and even dangerous to mortals is pretty common. This easily fits in with a Vancian system as being an explanation for spell levels and slots.

The corrupt local Bishop might appear less holy than the true faith of Joan Of Arc. in D&D terms, the Bishop is a Cleric 3/ Rogue 5 and Joan of Arc is Paladin 8

Likewise, the common trope of Exorcism style films, is prayers/rites that give the priest power over the possessed or undead is only known by a special few.....seems rather D&D-ish to me. The local vicar, does not know how to turn undead, or cast out ghosts from this world, but Jesuit order the player belongs to study those prayers.

Taste is solely one's own, but it might be a bit harsh given that, to write off universally for everyone the validity of a certain system, because it does met your own personal tastes.