Paladin's Special Mount and its Natural Armor

[Spatzimaus]

There's another precedent for "overlap, not add": the Blackguard. While the Paladin says Natural Armor of 4, 6, 8, 10, the Blackguard says +1, +3, +5, +7 and specifically says to add to the previous NA.

Personally, I think this is just yet another reason Mounts are too weak. Sooner or later I should post the House Ruled edition we use IMC.

 

[Dingleberry]

I don't have the books in front of me, but IIRC, there are specific mounts in Defenders of the Faith and Enemies and Allies that indicate that "an improvement" means you should add it.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I don't have the books in front of me, but IIRC, there are specific mounts in Defenders of the Faith and Enemies and Allies that indicate that "an improvement" means you should add it.

Oops.

There's only one Paladin's Mount stat block in DotF that I noticed on a quick flip through - a Heavy Warhorse.

AC 20.

Base of 10.
-1 size.
+1 Dex.
+4 Natural.
+6 Natural (9th level Paladin)
+4 Masterwork Scale Barding.

Add all those up and we get 24... which strongly implies that the two Naturals don't stack, to leave us with the AC 20.

Looks like I was wrong

-Hyp.

 

[Dingleberry]

I obviously did not recall correctly. I probably missed the barding.

 

[Artoomis]

Oops.

There's only one Paladin's Mount stat block in DotF that I noticed on a quick flip through - a Heavy Warhorse.

AC 20.

Base of 10.
-1 size.
+1 Dex.
+4 Natural.
+6 Natural (9th level Paladin)
+4 Masterwork Scale Barding.

Add all those up and we get 24... which strongly implies that the two Naturals don't stack, to leave us with the AC 20.

Looks like I was wrong

-Hyp.

I understand that Sword anf Fist has an example as well, but it shows that it is additive. Since I don't own it, I can't really confirm that.

 

[Zhure]

S&F, page 67
"Alarion's Mount: Paladin's heavy warhorse; CR
6; Large magical beast; HD 6d8+18; hp 45; Init +1
(Dex); Spd 50 ft.; AC 21 (-1 size, +1 Dex, +3
masterwork studded leather barding, +8 natural); Atk
2 hooves +6 melee (ld6+4 hoof); bite +1 melee (ld4+2
bite); SQ. scent, improved evasion, share spells,
empathic link, share saving throws; Fort +7, Ref+5,
Will +2; Str 19, Dex 13, Con 17, Int 6, Wis 13, Cha 6.
Skills and Feats: Listen +7, Spot +7"

Personally, I let it add.

Greg

 

[Artoomis]

S&F, page 67
"Alarion's Mount: Paladin's heavy warhorse; CR
6; Large magical beast; HD 6d8+18; hp 45; Init +1
(Dex); Spd 50 ft.; AC 21 (-1 size, +1 Dex, +3
masterwork studded leather barding, +8 natural); Atk
2 hooves +6 melee (ld6+4 hoof); bite +1 melee (ld4+2
bite); SQ. scent, improved evasion, share spells,
empathic link, share saving throws; Fort +7, Ref+5,
Will +2; Str 19, Dex 13, Con 17, Int 6, Wis 13, Cha 6.
Skills and Feats: Listen +7, Spot +7"

Personally, I let it add.

Greg

I let it add, too.

The contradictory examples do not help clarify this. Since the language with fiamiliars and blackguards is identical, I go with the view that the lack of a "+" in the table is a simple oversight.

In the end, it simply helps the mount survive a little better. I look at the fact that the mount is intended to be involved in direct combat as a good reason to be generous in deciding whether the natural bonus is supposed to be additive or not.

 

[Spatzimaus]

I wouldn't trust the S&F example, since it got all sorts of things wrong. It should have an attack bonus of +10 (+6 for 6 Magical Beast dice, +4 for STR 19) instead of +6; even if you pretended it was really an Animal, it'd still be +8. Likewise, the saves should be Fort +8, Ref +6, Will +3 whether it's an Animal, Beast, or Magical Beast.