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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Paladins with powers being deluded/deceived?
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<blockquote data-quote="Dannyalcatraz" data-source="post: 6267350" data-attributes="member: 19675"><p>Ah, I see the source of confusion! Those terms- "knowingly", "negligently", etc.- are just descriptions of mental states, each one a subset of "mens rea".</p><p></p><p></p><p>Strict Liability is a tort standard, not a criminal law standard. I'm thinking that a Paladin's responsibility is high, yes, but he must still fail at a criminally responsible level to be stripped of his status.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The Vow of Chastity is not the same as the Paladin's Oath. The first may be absolute, but the latter, more serious has clear qualifiers:</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>A paladin blinded in combat, still fighting for his life, accidentally beheads an innocent bystander or ally. The paladin has caused the death, no question, but had no recourse other than to stop fighting and let himself be killed. Will the divine patron strip him of his powers? </p><p></p><p>A deity demanding strict liability would. Most, I think, would not.</p><p></p><p>Uniformly strict liability legal codes have existed in the past- such as the Athenian laws of Draco. They tend to last only so long as someone is willing to back them up with extreme force. In Draco's case, nearly everything was punishable by death, except unintentional homicides (which got you exiled). They exception was one that resulted from a lot of debate. And after Draco, Solon repealed the Draconian Code (except his laws on homicide).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Does it make sense that a deity would invest power in an individual that is supposed to be his Sword & living symbol of his divine favor amongst the mortals, only to strip him of that power every time he made a mistake he could not possibly have avoided making? At best, it makes more work for the deity! </p><p></p><p>"Damn, another Paladin reinstatement form to fill out! WHY CAN'T THEY JUST FOLLOW MY RULES FLAWLESSLY?!?!?!?"</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Dannyalcatraz, post: 6267350, member: 19675"] Ah, I see the source of confusion! Those terms- "knowingly", "negligently", etc.- are just descriptions of mental states, each one a subset of "mens rea". Strict Liability is a tort standard, not a criminal law standard. I'm thinking that a Paladin's responsibility is high, yes, but he must still fail at a criminally responsible level to be stripped of his status. The Vow of Chastity is not the same as the Paladin's Oath. The first may be absolute, but the latter, more serious has clear qualifiers: A paladin blinded in combat, still fighting for his life, accidentally beheads an innocent bystander or ally. The paladin has caused the death, no question, but had no recourse other than to stop fighting and let himself be killed. Will the divine patron strip him of his powers? A deity demanding strict liability would. Most, I think, would not. Uniformly strict liability legal codes have existed in the past- such as the Athenian laws of Draco. They tend to last only so long as someone is willing to back them up with extreme force. In Draco's case, nearly everything was punishable by death, except unintentional homicides (which got you exiled). They exception was one that resulted from a lot of debate. And after Draco, Solon repealed the Draconian Code (except his laws on homicide). Does it make sense that a deity would invest power in an individual that is supposed to be his Sword & living symbol of his divine favor amongst the mortals, only to strip him of that power every time he made a mistake he could not possibly have avoided making? At best, it makes more work for the deity! "Damn, another Paladin reinstatement form to fill out! WHY CAN'T THEY JUST FOLLOW MY RULES FLAWLESSLY?!?!?!?" [/QUOTE]
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