MarkB
Legend
Well, it's not easy running a "find the lady" scam when the cards keep getting marked by your own ichor every time you pick them up.
Panicing D&D 3.5 DM!
- Thread starter Sorrock
- Start date
Well, it's not easy running a "find the lady" scam when the cards keep getting marked by your own ichor every time you pick them up.
"Do the Hustle!" Doo doo doo doodoodoodoodoodoo!
Seriously, terrain is going to be your friend. His zombies are going to be more effective in dungeons and other enclosed areas that restrict movement. In the wilds, cities, areas that allow for flying enemies (stirges will avoid the zombies since they're not juicy and go straight for the unarmored mage), etc... they're going to be much less effective.
Let him enjoy them in the movement-restrictive areas and let him be frustrated in the open-movement areas.
~Tam
On Puget Sound
First Post
It's important not to let this become a DM vs player power struggle. This player has a fun concept, a vision that he wants his character to pull off. Let him... some of the time.
For him, and for each other character in your party, every group of 5 or 6 encounters should include:
1 "star" encounter that really lets that character shine, where his unique abilities will let him "win". For an undead army raiser, that would probably be an open field battle with many weak foes, or with one strong enemy that can be contained by the horde.
1 "nemesis" encounter that seriously challenges the character, that aims at his weaknesses or deficiencies. This does NOT mean making the character powerless or helpless, but it should take away his standard best tactic or reduce its effectiveness, forcing him to rely on others and/ or find a different trick. An enemy cleric that can evaporate his army on round one is not cool, but one who can wrest control of some minions from him, creating a tug of war for dominance, is great fun. One character's nemesis encounter is frequently another character's star encounter.
And 3 or 4 normal encounters, where each character can use their abilities reasonably well. If these tend to turn into star encounters for one PC, that's where balance issues come in.
When I played 3.5 I had a spiked-chain tripster, and the GM was effective at doing this for my group; for every time I ended round one with seven opponents prone and threatened, there was also an ooze or swarm incident.
For him, and for each other character in your party, every group of 5 or 6 encounters should include:
1 "star" encounter that really lets that character shine, where his unique abilities will let him "win". For an undead army raiser, that would probably be an open field battle with many weak foes, or with one strong enemy that can be contained by the horde.
1 "nemesis" encounter that seriously challenges the character, that aims at his weaknesses or deficiencies. This does NOT mean making the character powerless or helpless, but it should take away his standard best tactic or reduce its effectiveness, forcing him to rely on others and/ or find a different trick. An enemy cleric that can evaporate his army on round one is not cool, but one who can wrest control of some minions from him, creating a tug of war for dominance, is great fun. One character's nemesis encounter is frequently another character's star encounter.
And 3 or 4 normal encounters, where each character can use their abilities reasonably well. If these tend to turn into star encounters for one PC, that's where balance issues come in.
When I played 3.5 I had a spiked-chain tripster, and the GM was effective at doing this for my group; for every time I ended round one with seven opponents prone and threatened, there was also an ooze or swarm incident.
TheAuldGrump
First Post
No problem - I made the same mistake back in 3.0.
Oddly enough one of the downsides of adding critters is that the party levels faster - it can lead to escalation.
The Auld Grump
TheAuldGrump
First Post
As On Puget Sound mentioned, it is also a good idea to give him chances to shine. Let the low level mook mob go down under the zombie horde.
Put in some encounters where thinking sideways as a DN might work - an (Un)living Bridge or (In)Human Pyramid, either as technique that can be used (Greased wall with door that is 20' up that can be reached by climbing on the zombies) or as obstacle (Bridge made of zombies that throw any who try to cross it into the Chasm of Infinite Peril, a quick rebuke and they lay nice and still).
Challenges for him on the other hand - Tumbling enemies who roll right through his zombies to bop him on the bean.
Battles on the deck of a ship in a rolling sea. (Zombie overboard!)
Folks with alchemists fire.
Areas that have been sanctified, where the undead cannot go until the area is desecrated.
The Auld Grump
Put in some encounters where thinking sideways as a DN might work - an (Un)living Bridge or (In)Human Pyramid, either as technique that can be used (Greased wall with door that is 20' up that can be reached by climbing on the zombies) or as obstacle (Bridge made of zombies that throw any who try to cross it into the Chasm of Infinite Peril, a quick rebuke and they lay nice and still).
Challenges for him on the other hand - Tumbling enemies who roll right through his zombies to bop him on the bean.
Battles on the deck of a ship in a rolling sea. (Zombie overboard!)
Folks with alchemists fire.
Areas that have been sanctified, where the undead cannot go until the area is desecrated.
The Auld Grump
Aberzanzorax
Hero
It's important to remember what he can control. That's going to be two undead of no better than 1/2 of his hit dice (i.e. at lvl 4 he can have 2 zombies of 2 hd each).
Note that the turning check determines the most powerful undead affected, but not the cleric's level. So a cleric might be able to rebuke or turn an undead with more HD than himself, but he'll never destroy or command one with more than half his HD.
There have been a number of great posts, and this might retread some of them. Remember skill checks. Climbing a rope or ladder? With plate? Balancing? Etc. Etc.
Also, remember that evil charactrs will fight evil enemies. A "wall of zombies" suddenly becomes "a horde of killers" when an evil cleric turns and commands all of your player's zombies.
Note that the turning check determines the most powerful undead affected, but not the cleric's level. So a cleric might be able to rebuke or turn an undead with more HD than himself, but he'll never destroy or command one with more than half his HD.
There have been a number of great posts, and this might retread some of them. Remember skill checks. Climbing a rope or ladder? With plate? Balancing? Etc. Etc.
Also, remember that evil charactrs will fight evil enemies. A "wall of zombies" suddenly becomes "a horde of killers" when an evil cleric turns and commands all of your player's zombies.
No problem - I made the same mistake back in 3.0.
Oddly enough one of the downsides of adding critters is that the party levels faster - it can lead to escalation.
The Auld Grump
Much better to restrict that rule to limited duration Summoned creatures, limited-number Companion animals & familiars, and other such cases. Otherwise there's no clear cut off to stop it applying to hirelings - how do 500hirelings differ from 500 charmed Orcs or 500 animated skeletons, anyway?
Michael Silverbane
Adventurer
Another option that might be open to you, if some of these other 'fixes' do not pan out as desired, is to simply let the player know that his character is making it difficult for you to come up with appropriate challenges and to ask him to make a different type of character.
Remember that the game should be fun for the DM too, and that open and honest communication is often times the quickest way to a solution in a collaborative enterprise, such as a role playing game.
Remember that the game should be fun for the DM too, and that open and honest communication is often times the quickest way to a solution in a collaborative enterprise, such as a role playing game.
aboyd
Explorer
Please don't do this. If a DM hates something about a character, and yet allows it, and then undermines it, it creates huge ill-will. The player will fumble around for a while trying to make things work before realizing that he got ripped off and cannot do what he expects to do. If the DM simply states, "I'm not allowing that, sorry," then the player can immediately recalibrate with no sense of wasted time or being undermined.
Please be up front.
Yeah, that.
Scott DeWar
Prof. Emeritus-Supernatural Events/Countermeasure
i do believe there is a fast zombie template somewhere.
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