Part-time PhD...Doable?

nakia said:
If you have contacts at those places, use them! If you are just sending blind emails, you are likely to get pretty generic replies, if you get replies at all. You can also check out The Chronicle of Higher Education. It's where all (and I do mean all) the jobs get posted, so that will give you a sense of what's out there. You can get an on-line subscription at a reasonable rate.

Cool you are coming down! Just send me an email and I'll get you my contact info. We'll work out a time to get together.

Nakia,

Looks like my best time will be Wed (11/2) evening. I will probably be in Columbia until ~ 7:00 - 7:30, which would put me back up in the Charlotte area ~ 8:30 - 9:00 PM. We can meet in Rock Hill, or, if you don't mind driving a bit, we could meet at Ri-Ra's in Charlotte. I can probably scare up a couple of my old gaming buddies to meet us, but I don't know when you turn into a pumpkin (not to be confused with "carrying the pumpkin") or if you have an early morning the next day.

Tuesday night would also be a possibility...I am giving a speech in Wilmington over lunchtime and will be back up in Charlotte ~ 6:00 PM, but may need to schedule dinner with clients that night.

~ OO
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Guys,

I'm a longtime lurker (first posting, actually), but I can echo Nakia's comments here. I'm a PhD with a specialty in medieval history (a fair amount on Norman history, but not the South Italian kind) and would be happy to offer what guidance I can. Let me say that the single biggest obstacle to your plan will be foreign language - while many MA programs may allow you to get an MA in fields like medieval Europe without the language training, the expectation is that at the PhD level you will be doing research in the original languages - for medieval, of course, this means Latin (and perhaps other languages as well). You'll also be expected to have (or acquire) reading familiarity with relevant modern European languages - usually French and German, but if you're going to study Italy you'll need Italian too. In my experience, language training is the single largest obstacle keeping people from working on PhDs in European (or any non-English-speaking topic). Not having languages is not insurmountable - I had to work up lots of them while an MA student - but it is a serious consideration.

You'll also impress a Graduate Admissions committee most if you can be very specific about your research interests - stuff like "I'd really like to work with Professor X at Your University because I'm interested in his/her book Y and in the topic of Z". This sort of specificity will help show your interest to the relevant Prof(s).

I'll echo the suggestions about terminal MAs - this is probably the way to go, although you may find that even terminal MAs have trouble finding permanent (sometimes even part-time) teaching at the university level. The job situation of the last 15 years has produced a glut of PhDs who are increasingly forced into taking the sorts of jobs that used to be pretty much the preserve of the terminal MA.

I know this sounds pretty grim, so I'll end with a note of hope. If you really love your topic, and are willing to put a lot of time in (plan on 7-9 years for a PhD in European history, especially if you don't have any language training), you should definitely go for it. Your passion will ultimately carry you through (after you've endured a lot of crap)

I'm happy to answer more detailed questions off line - you can find my info and email address at the UNCG history department webpage - look for the only medievalist.

best of luck,

Rebarton
 

rebarton2 said:
Guys,

I'm a longtime lurker (first posting, actually), but I can echo Nakia's comments here. I'm a PhD with a specialty in medieval history (a fair amount on Norman history, but not the South Italian kind) and would be happy to offer what guidance I can. Let me say that the single biggest obstacle to your plan will be foreign language - while many MA programs may allow you to get an MA in fields like medieval Europe without the language training, the expectation is that at the PhD level you will be doing research in the original languages - for medieval, of course, this means Latin (and perhaps other languages as well). You'll also be expected to have (or acquire) reading familiarity with relevant modern European languages - usually French and German, but if you're going to study Italy you'll need Italian too. In my experience, language training is the single largest obstacle keeping people from working on PhDs in European (or any non-English-speaking topic). Not having languages is not insurmountable - I had to work up lots of them while an MA student - but it is a serious consideration.

You'll also impress a Graduate Admissions committee most if you can be very specific about your research interests - stuff like "I'd really like to work with Professor X at Your University because I'm interested in his/her book Y and in the topic of Z". This sort of specificity will help show your interest to the relevant Prof(s).

I'll echo the suggestions about terminal MAs - this is probably the way to go, although you may find that even terminal MAs have trouble finding permanent (sometimes even part-time) teaching at the university level. The job situation of the last 15 years has produced a glut of PhDs who are increasingly forced into taking the sorts of jobs that used to be pretty much the preserve of the terminal MA.

I know this sounds pretty grim, so I'll end with a note of hope. If you really love your topic, and are willing to put a lot of time in (plan on 7-9 years for a PhD in European history, especially if you don't have any language training), you should definitely go for it. Your passion will ultimately carry you through (after you've endured a lot of crap)

I'm happy to answer more detailed questions off line - you can find my info and email address at the UNCG history department webpage - look for the only medievalist.

best of luck,

Rebarton

Rebarton,

Wow...I feel honored that you "delurked" to toss some denarii into my question. I am assuming that this UNCG lies between WS and RTP?

I have been doing some research into the expectations at the PhD level and the language issue definitely seems to be the case. The expectation on every program I have looked at is high working level knowledge of at least 2 modern (with French/German or French/Italian being the most common) and at least 1 older (Greek, Latin, Hebrew, etc) language.

The good new is, I am a pretty quick study on languages. The bad news is, that is a lot of languages! I have 1-2 skill ranks (on a 5-rank scale) in both French and Italian and about 1/2-rank in German (lived there for 3 years back in the 1990s...but that was a long time ago :p). I read all three much better than I speak or write them. Latin is another story, especially with false cognates :p...

Is the expectation that you know all of these going into the program or that you demonstrate/develop proficiency by the time you start your thesis work?

One option would be to pick up the terminal MA, work on the language subskills and then just plan on full-time studenthood around age 60...which brings me to another question...how old is too old? My impression is that there are a alot of crusty ol' codgers bouncing around colleges...but that may not be the case. I guess one potential benefit is that I am right at the tail end of the "baby boomers", so there are likely to be wholesale retirements in the 10-15 years that I am working on my evil master plan ;)!

Also, thanks for the offer to pick your brain...medievalist...that has a good ring to it :D!

~ OO
 

Old One,

It had to happen sooner or later (delurking, that is)!

Yeah, UNCG - "the Research University of the Triad" (or so we're told). Only an hour from the Big Schools in Chapel HIll and Durham, and only 30 minutes from Wake.

I've been in and out of gaming since '78-'79 and am currently eager to start up again - it'll probably be just my wife and I, and most probably C&C or AD&D. But that's for another thread ...

When I applied to grad school, at the tender age of 21, I was super naive (probably still am). I had had high school spanish, and placed out of it in college. I applied all over the place for MA/PhD programs and was roundly rejected (but in a sympathetic way - get some language skills, they'd say) most places. One school took a chance on me, which I guess panned out. I had to work up (good) reading knowledge of Latin and French, and (poor) reading knowledge of German in 4 years. Ay caramba!

You sound like you're in much better shape than I was when I embarked on this adventure. Reading knowledge of the modern languages is all that's *really* required, although should you go to Italy to do research (or wherever), then speaking can help (I acquired SR 2 in French to help my research out - I can order food, give directions, and so forth, but wouldn't want to debate the fine points of Bill the Conqueror en francais). Truly, Latin is the necessary skill, and it's got to be good enough that you can read your stuff in the original. If you're at all thinking of this, I'd recommend picking up an intensive Latin course at your local mage guild, er, university. This would also be a sign of good faith in applying for admission.

My case is proof that you don't actually need the languages to get into grad school (and ultimately, to get a job! whoo-hoo!). Still, the elite schools get so many good applicants that they will almost always reject you out of hand if you have no langugaes to begin with. A state school will be more likely to give you a look, especially if you have good GREs and/or excellent recommendations from people the admission commitee respects. In this case, if you show that you've already got some language under your belt (as you do), and that you've already begun work on Latin prior to entrance, you'll probably be okay.

As Nokia (or someone - sorry) pointed out, a lot of getting in and getting out depends on your career plans. Most schools will at least pretend that all their admitted students are intended to be scholars, and that the desired job for such people is at a research university. Reality (and numbers) reveals that not all PhDs end up at such places - I have some good friends from grad school who are teaching at small colleges where research is not an issue (good gamers, too! Geleg lives, right Wombat?). Still, you're better off in trying to get in by playing up the research end. Should you, on the other end, apply only to smaller, teaching oriented schools, then so be it.

The point about being willing to move to a job is a good one - chances are you'll not be able to land a permanent job in your current residence (I'm a yankee, not a Tar Heel, by birth at least).

Finally (gotta go prepare class), you are right to have some concerns about age. Every school will say that age doesn't make a difference, and that merit always prevails. This is not always true (although there are enough exceptions to make one wake up and smell the coffee - our dept hired someone a couple of years before me who was probably 50 at the time). Still, I bet you'll find that - at least for permanent jobs - schools may say (or not say, but intimate) that they want someone who will be around for longer. It ain't fair, but it's true.

Again, I feel like I'm trying to talk you out of it - I'm not. You sound like you're actually a pretty desirable candidate. Some language background, lots of motivation, and a gamer to boot (oops, that won't count in admission ...). I've had a lot of discussions of this sort with our first year (terminal) MA candidates, and I always try to give them the grim facts about languages, jobs, etc, up front so that they don't feel like they've wasted time working on a PhD.

Anyway, this is way too long a post - sorry. If you want more advice, drop me an email at rebarton at uncg dot edu.

REB
 

Unless he's talking about a different school, Old One, UNCG is University of North Carolina at Greensboro.

By the way, is there any chance you're swinging through the eastern part of the state on your trip in November?
 

I see that rebarton2 beat me to the punch on the school thing (by 2 minutes!).

rebarton2, since you're new and relatively close by, please allow me to personally invite you to attend the NC Game Days in Raleigh if you have a chance. The website is HERE. We have them three times a year with the next two being in January and April. There are lots of gamers to meet there including (occasionally) Old One and Nakia!
 

Rel said:
Unless he's talking about a different school, Old One, UNCG is University of North Carolina at Greensboro.

By the way, is there any chance you're swinging through the eastern part of the state on your trip in November?

Rel,

Shhh...he may want to remain on the downlow ;) and you just blew his cover. Due to my strong google-fu...I have already found and e-mailed the good doctor. He is working on some pretty cool stuff.

Anyway...he might be a good recruit for a future NCGD.

Unfortunately, no chance of a RTP/Raleigh swing this trip...I have ~100 hours of work to cram into 80 hours on the ground, including trips out of Charlotte to Wilmington, Columbia and probably Hickory...bleah!

~ OO
 

OO and Rel,

Yeah you sussed me out. I'm one of those closet gamers - buys all the stuff and dreams of the glory days (last die rolled seriously ... 1996/7 ... arghhh!)

I've seen the Gaming Day stuff over at Raleigh in the past. NOw that I've got tenure, I just may give it a try .... I don't have to worry as much about perishing (grin). Besides, it's almost time to introduce my 4 1/2 year old daughter to the glories of PnP gaming.

REB
 

Rel said:
I see that rebarton2 beat me to the punch on the school thing (by 2 minutes!).

rebarton2, since you're new and relatively close by, please allow me to personally invite you to attend the NC Game Days in Raleigh if you have a chance. The website is HERE. We have them three times a year with the next two being in January and April. There are lots of gamers to meet there including (occasionally) Old One and Nakia!

I know I have asked this like 10 times...but what are the April dates again (20/21?)?

~ OO
 

rebarton2 said:
Besides, it's almost time to introduce my 4 1/2 year old daughter to the glories of PnP gaming.

REB

Mine is more of a LARPer (check the second link in my .sig if you want to see and hear my daughter's adventures).

Old One, I don't have a callendar in front of me but the April dates were the "low 20s". I was thinking 22-23 but 20-21 might be right too.
 

Remove ads

Top