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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ashrym" data-source="post: 9465787" data-attributes="member: 6750235">So the 2024 PHB has this...I think I might have been taking it for granted my (and other players) experience in how to build a character to fill these roles.  I'm not sure how much everyone agrees or disagrees with the premise either and the fact this statement doesn't really give new players information on how these classes fit in with their abilities.  It looks to me like it's an appeal to tradition, which I don't think is necessarily bad (I like nostalgia too <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> ) but I think it could have been expanded on a bit more if WotC is putting that premise out for players.I'm also curious what other experienced players might thing of what's needed and where these classes fit into "party balance".<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">cleric looks like "healer and support"</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">fighter looks like "hit things and takes damage"</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">rogue looks like "expertise in skills" -- that one in particular could use more detail</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">wizard looks like "casts offensive spells"</li> </ul>I think a class like bard can cover skills instead of a rogue without too many complications, can heal well if selecting the right spells but needs to be cautious due to the armor differences being where they might need to be for healing, and takes a lot of caution trying to select spells to cover for what a wizard can do.  The bard is listed for everything but fighter and I think that's misleading because a new player might look at this and think the one class covers more.Meanwhile, I think a druid can cover for a wizard reasonably well within that spell selection; or a DEX based fighter (who can boost skill checks with tactical mind) using (bonus) feats for things like keen mind, observant, and/or skill expert is capable of expertise in investigation, perception, and/or stealth. Student of War adds a bonus skill proficiency; and maneuvers such as ambush, commanding presence, and tactical assessment also give options for bonuses to skill checks a rogue can use.I think I can build a fighter that does well with skill checks.  It's just a more complex build on what we're told is a low complexity class.  That's also why classifying classes by experts didn't work in the playtest.  Skill expertise isn't unique enough and additional skills are easy to get via feat and species and subclass.I haven't played with monks enough to decide they can replace a fighter and don't get that idea on first impression.  The initial impression I get is that they don't fit the category the way they are presented.  This is more how I see it if WotC continues with the premise to make it easier for new players...Thoughts?</blockquote>

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