Party Conflicts and Different Moral Agendas

[LairdRuari]

Greetings all,
Its been awhile since my last post. Axel is my character as well as Rodrigo. I really didn't even want to play another fundamentalist Vallorean character since I have quite a few in Shark's other campaigns already. I agreed to it because one of our members is a complete newbie (Dorin Skullsplitter - the Dwarven fighter), and he had expressed the tired old concern of D&D being Cultic or Satananic. I know, I know don't get me started. This player is about as bright as his Dwarf, but Shark and I thought we would include at least one zealot in the group to make him comfortable. Enough said about that!!
It was inevitible that Axel and the Elves would have conflict. Axel's belief system is staunchly Black & White. For him to fathom the idea of releasing the adolescent gnolls is beyond him. To Axel, the young gnolls aren't necissarily evil..., but they will certainly grow up to become the fell creatures that attacked the young maiden in the last cavern(Axel buried her). Contrary to the accusations leveled at him by Zaratheena Axel is not without mercy...his is just a different brand than hers. Axel's mercy was to spare these young gnolls through death, give them proper burial, pray over their graves, and trust that if there was any chance of their salvation Valloran would see to it. Axel and Zaratheena will never see eye-to-eye...Zaratheena's chaotic situational ethics will never reach him. Elves have a hard time with death it seems...humans have to come to grips with it much sooner. Axel has an optimistic view of the afterlife through Valloran's blessings. Zaratheena has an optimistic view of life through Correllan's blessings. Zaratheena is just as zealous as Axel in her beliefs. In fact, Berrech had to restrain her from leveling her bow at Axel just prior to the attempt at subduing him with sleep spells. They failed because his will was set...he was doing what must be done.
Rodrigo on the other hand was joining in the butchery for no other reason than to make certain none escaped. He wanted no more surprises from these gnolls. The last thing the party needed was a young gnoll escaping and alerting any others that may still be lurking about to our party's whereabouts. Zaratheena as a Ranger should have known this, but the Elven lass was too squeemish for the task for Rodrigo. To a pirate, dead men tell no tales...same goes for gnolls young or old. His allegiance is to himself, and temporarily to the party that pays for his services. He seeks fortune and fame(as long as the latter does not hinder the former). Rodrigo is hoping that Zaratheena will come to her senses, and that Axel would just shut up. He's already sick of hearing about Vallorea and it's gods. Axel knows how to wield his mace, of that Rodrigo is certain, and it is handy to have him around if Rodrigo misses a trap, but this bickering in the group is distracting. He would hate to have to gut the Elven wench for backstabbing Axel should she decide to let an arrow or two fly his direction.
So far it has been fun. 5 of the 6 players involved(including Shark) have really slipped into their characters. Our Dwarven friend we are hoping is not far behind. Obviously, Axel is an LG character. Rodrigo is an experiment of mine of sorts. All of my other characters have been good in their alignments, so I decided to play a shadier character. He is an a-moral sort being neutral. He can go either way without the slightest twang in his concience, for he has none. It will be interesting to see him develop.



Laird Ruari

 

[SHARK]

Greetings!

Well, LairdRauri! Indeed, you play the Vallorean cleric of Vallenar very well! It has become a staple of the campaign I think! The elves usually have such philosophical conflicts with the Valloreans though! I think, as you mentioned, the characters in question are just coming at it from very different philosophical world views, and their differences are just something that they are going to have to learn to deal with.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

 

[LuYangShih]

Axel's mercy was to spare these young gnolls through death, give them proper burial, pray over their graves, and trust that if there was any chance of their salvation Valloran would see to it.

"Kill them all, and let God sort them out."

Yeah, there's a LG philosophy if I ever heard one.

 

[Umbran]

Hr. I, personally, have a problem with Shark's scenario, as stated.

I like a bit of moral quandry and inter-PC conflict in my games, but like others, I don't like it when it gets to the point of splitting the party. Moral quandry over what constitutes murder is usually beyond that point.

I mean, look at this. Axel slays a bunch of young gnolls. Those who disagree with his actions seem content to allow it to slide with a few annoyed words. So, they'll deal harshly with adult gnolls, but not adult PCs? Pardon me if I see a high level of meta-game roleplaying there, but it seems a double standard.

 

[S'mon]

Hr. I, personally, have a problem with Shark's scenario, as stated.

I like a bit of moral quandry and inter-PC conflict in my games, but like others, I don't like it when it gets to the point of splitting the party. Moral quandry over what constitutes murder is usually beyond that point.

I mean, look at this. Axel slays a bunch of young gnolls. Those who disagree with his actions seem content to allow it to slide with a few annoyed words. So, they'll deal harshly with adult gnolls, but not adult PCs? Pardon me if I see a high level of meta-game roleplaying there, but it seems a double standard.

I disagree with that entirely. Say Shark and his Marine Corps buddies are in the Gulf have rounded up some wounded Iraqi prisoners (or Vietnamese in Nam, or Germans in WW2 France, etc) and are debating the morality of executing the prisoners as opposed to letting them go or abandoning their mission & escorting the prisoners to the nearest aid station, and they disagree about the best solution - do you really think the Marines are going to start shooting at each other, their comrades-in-arms? Highly unlikely. Of course chain-of-command really helps so that there's just one person who needs to make this decision.

(Not speaking from personal experience, but a friend of my wife's did have a similar experience some years ago).

 

[Umbran]

I disagree with that entirely. Say Shark and his Marine Corps buddies are in the Gulf have rounded up some wounded Iraqi prisoners (or Vietnamese in Nam, or Germans in WW2 France, etc) and are debating the morality of executing the prisoners as opposed to letting them go or abandoning their mission

You are allowed to disagree. I said I personally have a problem with the senario. You are allowed to not have problems with it, as you choose.

That being said, I think this is a lousy analogy.

For one thing, the analogous thing would be for some of the marine corps buddies to open fire and execute the prisoners without specific orders from their commander, before consulting with others in the unit, and to continue the killing over the protestations and even active attempts of others in the unit to stop them.

For another (and perhaps more important) point, make the prisoners children, and note that the enemy has not been seen using children as combatants.

Between those two, I think your analogy simply isn't analogous.

 

[S'mon]

Just a point that young gnolls don't look much like human children; they probably look more like cute baby hyenas...

 

[barsoomcore]

SHARK! Good to hear from you as always.

I have a particular relish for moral quandaries and my players sometimes seem to be forever at each others' throats over moral differences.

The big difference is that Barsoom lacks a culture like Vallorea, where religion provides simple answers and gives people a strong moral grounding. On Barsoom only members of obscure cults have such straightforward worldviews. Religion has almost completely died out across the world and people don't put much faith in things. Barsoom is a world of skeptics. (There are reasons for that but it's a long story)

So the conflicts are not usually about competing worldviews but instead about decisions as to what powers the party should support.

Last season, they encountered two powerful people, the Demon Goddess and Matai Shang, who were engaged in a life-or-death struggle over the soul of the Blood Mother, which Shang had long ago shattered into ten pieces that were distributed around the world. The party had to decide which of these unsavoury figures (the Demon Goddess is a vampire sorceress with a bad attitude and questionable appetites, while Matai Shang is a cranky deformed old man in a spidery mechanical chair who treats people like his personal science experiements) they would ally with, and they were never in agreement as to what the best course was.

Arguments with this group go on for HOURS! It's a bunch of smart, talkative people with lots of ideas and good analytic skills, and they can go on forever on issues like this.

It's very rewarding as a DM to see. One PC was actually retired because she couldn't reconcile her beliefs with what the group decided to do. So the player created a new character and retired the old one. Who's now living happily ever after...

 

[SHARK]

Greetings!

Hey Barsoomcore, your world sounds quite interesting. Your players argue and fight all the time? It's fun to see the players sharpen their characters' views and defend them against the views of other players. I think it is an avenue for the players to "get to know" their characters, so to speak.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

 

[LairdRuari]

Update to Sharky's Story Hour and Moral Agendas

Greetings everyone!!

It has been a while, so I thought that alittle update was in order.

Axel and crew have grown to 5th level characters now and Shark has us running through a brutal module published by "Sword & Sorcery". We are playing weekly on Saturdays and after the last foray into the module's dungeon our parties once swelling numbers are thinning out. Dorin and Ghorn were eaten by a Dung monster, as well as, a newer character played by my nephew. Axel is fairing pretty well, so far he has Vallenar looking after him through his Holy Mace "Tharmen". Zaratheena is holding her own much to the consternation of Axel. She is still a contrary elven bi*$h in Axel's view, and her player goes out of her way to oppose Axel at every turn. This has grown old, and annoying, upon the group and Shark is taking steps to correct the situation. There have been a few times that Axel has taken matters into his own hands to shut her up much to the ammusement of the rest of the party via hold/ silence spells. Rodrigo is in trouble. Shark assigns "Fate" points to each charachter in lue of "resurrection" spells which he claims does not exist in Thandor. As the party's only rogue, fate has caught up with Rodrigo and he is out of chances. He has at present 36 hp's between remaing healthy or extinction. The rest of the party is on edge and attacking anything that moves. I will check back with a further update as will Shark no doubt.

Laird Ruari