Party dynamics mini game

[Longtooth Studios]

The problem with a mini-game like this is that unless it is made to conform to "a changing dynamic is a good dynamic" philosphy, it'll actually stifle roleplaying.

If an unstressed rock-solid group is the most advantageous, then player groups will have incentive to become a rock-solid group with no inter-personal drama or conflict.

Maybe, I have played with various breeds of players and some would immediately exploit it and squeeze it for bonuses. Others would be encouraged by it and enjoy the in game effects that resulted as fruits of the role play, even if it was a penalty.
As the game master I have some control and ability to encourage the later.

Its worth a little more thought. I would be interested in hearing about the influence this has had on RP.

 

[Longtooth Studios]

Details, man. We'll need DETAILS.

I only know what is posted on the site, I don't own the system yet. It sparks a lot of idea sin my head though.
Thinking about hammering out a more generic, d20ish mini game out of the concept if anyone is interested.

 

[Nagol]

I only know what is posted on the site, I don't own the system yet. It sparks a lot of idea sin my head though.
Thinking about hammering out a more generic, d20ish mini game out of the concept if anyone is interested.

The easiest way to balance the behaviour while allowing the feel to change when the party dynamic does is to start with the basic assumptions and balance those up or down as the group moves away from the default.

For example, a basic assumption is you want to avoid hitting an ally in combat with missile fire.

The default is you can't, but you take a -4 to hit when firing at an enemy in melee combat.

If the group is particularly harmonious, the character cannot fire into a melee containing allies, but allies fighting beside each other gain a +1 AC as they watch each others' backs.

If the group is stressed, perhaps the penalty falls to -2, but a natural 1 targets a random ally -- roll the attack again.

If the group is very stressed, the penalty disappears, but a random roll is made to see which meleer (the original target or an ostensible ally) is targeted by the atteck which is resolved normally.

 

[Nifft]

Details, man. We'll need DETAILS.

Will do.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Longtooth Studios]

Will do.

Cheers, -- N

Sweet! thanks. I have a couple of writing projects I am working on ATM, but this sounds like a worthy time investment, even if just for my own games.

 

[Stormonu]

PHB 2 for 3E has a whole chapter on group "mechanics", including teamwork feats.

I get the impression 4E D&D uses roles to promote group teamwork, with the penalty being individuals who do not "perform their role" put the group at risk for getting killed or badly injured in combat. Previous editions promoted this only insofar as "don't split the group." (And DM's who would throw wandering monsters at groups who got off-track or into heated discussions).

WFRPG 3E's group sheet works like an evolved version of the PHB2 advice & teamwork feats. Characters can "donate" cards to the group sheet from their character sheet, allowing everyone in the group access to the donated power. The group sheet also tracks fate tokens, which gets turned into rerolls/XP for the group when it reaches a certain critical mass. I believe characters can even donate rerolls to the group for others to use.

From what I've read, the stress-o-meter is intended to unify the group and keep it on-task. Characters suffer fatigue and stress if they let inter-party conflict get out of control (there's no mechanics, the game master decides when something occurs that "stresses" the group, so it looks like a tool for the game master to enforce player-player cooperation).

 

[pemerton]

teamwork feats

4e has these as well, in Dragon Magazine and Primal Power. They don't seem that well conceived of to me - does it make sense to lock yourself in that sort of way in a game which seems aimed at (i) at least a moderately high turnover of PCs, whether through death/retirement/just wanting to try out something new, and (ii) a pretty high turnover of situations and challenges?

If I understand the WH system is different, because the group benefits are created and used dynamically during play rather than as part of the character build process. Is that right?

 

[Longtooth Studios]

Most of my games typically run for months. Lately I have been running adventure paths written to run for six months and level into the mid teens before retiring and starting up a new game.
Party dynamics would be be a desirable factor to track in some way in my game.
If you play mostly organized events, it would make very little sense. There typically isn't enough time to develop those details.

 

[Nifft]

Details, man. We'll need DETAILS.

It was really interesting. Just like D&D 4e, WHFRP 3e has made the party the smallest unit of battle. However, while D&D kept most of the implications of this implicit, WHFRP 3e makes them explicit. It's a similar mechanical effect overall, in that it's your party's composition which determines (in part) your personal options & effectiveness, but it's a very different feel.

You choose a card for your party, which tells you what kind of group you are. This is awesome, because it eliminates a ton of potential interplayer conflicts: it turns out we were all leg-breaking ruffians, for example, so the range of our mutually acceptable activities was pretty well defined. Should we steal from our client? In D&D, that's a question every party member must consider individually, and the Paladin might not agree with the Thief. But we were all leg-breaking ruffians: petty theft was not beneath us -- it was right at our level, just within our arm's reach, if you take my meaning, guv'na.

The problem with a mini-game like this is that unless it is made to conform to "a changing dynamic is a good dynamic" philosphy, it'll actually stifle roleplaying.

If an unstressed rock-solid group is the most advantageous, then player groups will have incentive to become a rock-solid group with no inter-personal drama or conflict.

I dunno about this. What happened in our group is that we were all much more prone to say "yes" to each other as players, unless we had a very compelling reason to disagree, and the few times that such a thing came up, it was resolved very quickly.

The party stress meter sped up everything, and it felt like we had about as much RP'ing as usual. This is surprising: usually when it's our first session playing an unfamiliar game, we spend less time RP'ing. I suspect the party stress meter would be of great benefit to us if we used it more regularly -- both in terms of speeding up play, and of allowing each other to RP more. "Yes" is a good place to be.

PHB 2 for 3E has a whole chapter on group "mechanics", including teamwork feats.

IMHO teamwork feats are metagame signaling. They're the party's way of saying to the DM: "HEY LOOK, WE ARE ALL VERY GOOD AT STEALTH!", which means they'd rather like some chances to be stealthy.

WFRPG 3E's group sheet works like an evolved version of the PHB2 advice & teamwork feats. Characters can "donate" cards to the group sheet from their character sheet, allowing everyone in the group access to the donated power. The group sheet also tracks fate tokens, which gets turned into rerolls/XP for the group when it reaches a certain critical mass. I believe characters can even donate rerolls to the group for others to use.

From what I've read, the stress-o-meter is intended to unify the group and keep it on-task. Characters suffer fatigue and stress if they let inter-party conflict get out of control (there's no mechanics, the game master decides when something occurs that "stresses" the group, so it looks like a tool for the game master to enforce player-player cooperation).

Just the idea that it could be used as such was sufficient threat for my group. We got along swimmingly.

My experience with it is limited, so my ability to answer questions is limited, but feel free to ask anything specific.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Hussar]

That sounds very cool.

Now, do you change Group cards each session? Or does that single draw dictate the "type" of the party throughout the campaign? It would seem to be a bit much if it was the whole campaign - after all, playing "leg breaking ruffians" might be fun for a while, but, what if I don't want to be that all the time?

I'm not terribly familiar with the WHFRP, so, maybe these are really stupid questions.