(EDIT: This probably doesn't belong here, moderators feel free to move it elsewhere...)
I guess we all hear that 4E emphasizes team effort rather than individual effort when it comes to combat, so I decided to make a thread discussing how it works, based on my experience so far as a DM and Player, and also trying to use some definitions from other media to explain my points. Feel free to give your thoughts and correct me with your own experience.
There are a few factors that determines how effective a party plays in combat, among them:
The Combat Lines
In battle there are some "immaginary lines" that defines the party formation, whether you want it or not, you'll see that in the end your group, along with the monsters obey this rule.
The Frontline (or meatshield, or tank): these guys are responsible for absorbing most threats threw at the party, effectively protecting the middle and backlines. If something bad happens to your backline, it's often your fault. For obvious reasons, suggested Role for this position is the Defender, although there are a few exceptions. Ideally, the default Frontliner is a guy with heavy defenses (AC mostly) and not that high damage output.
The Midline: the utility the midline provides to the party is quite variable. From the ranger firing arrows/warlock throwing stuff at some called targets, to the battle cleric or the warlord providing support to the whole party while also supporting the frontline in keeping enemies where they should.
The Backline (or squishies): this is where your most dedicated casters stand. Most often the devoted cleric and wizard, they're the ones who need the most protection.
The Mobile Units (or Ganker, or Spiker): these guys requires lots of mobility, their job is to eliminate single specific targets that are making the fight tougher (ie. enemy backline). Ideally you'll be inside the enemy lines more often than not, that's why you need resources that lets you move fast, then deliver your "package" and run back. Also, try not to go too far where the healers on your team can't reach you, as it's advised to the healer on your party NOT break party formation to heal you, a good striker is one that's alive. Suggested classes are the Rogue and TWF Ranger.
The Linebreaker: being a "linebreaker" means advancing through enemy lines, pushing the envelope, shaking them and giving your party some battlefield advantage. The Linebreaker should focus on damage, mobility and surviveability since he'll be overextending. Also, when things go bad on your team's backline, you should quickly go back and help dealing with it. The Great Weapon Fighter and a similar Paladin and even maybe the TWF Ranger are all capable Linebreakers.
Notice how the Mobile Strikers and the Linebreakers looks similar. Don't be fooled though, they have quite different utility and roles. Where the Strikers are moving back and forth and effectively working "solo", the Linebraker is essentially a second tank, only pushing it a bit further.
The Roles
Partially explained above, each role has, well, a role to fill in battle, this is pretty much what the game by itself determines and you can find that information on the DMG/PHB, and here I'll just state my experiences so far and the importance each has when it comes to actual gaming.
The Defender and The Leader are essentially the structure of your party, without them the following things might happen:
1. Without a Leader or two (depending on the size of the party) the chances of survival diminishes alot. At first glance Inspiring/Healing Word mightn ot seem that good, but they are basicly what turns the PCs into PCs and NPCs into NPCs, monsters often have way more HP than any given member of your party (even more so at higher levels) and just as tough when it comes to attacks/defenses.
2. Without a Defender or two (again depending on party size) your party won't be able to stand and is probably going to be overwhelmed by enemy forces. It doesn't seem so, but Defenders are extremely useful, not just because of HP (there's actually not a great difference from a Fighter to a Warlord for example) nor AC (you could make a Cleric or Warlord with the same AC as a Fighter with the right feats, but that wouldn't turn you into a Defender). The thing here is that it's easy for the Leaders to focus their healing on a single target, and the Defender is the best choice to do so. It's easier to keep one person alive while the others are safe, than to keep your whole team alive when they're all in trouble, and the Defender assures that the former will happen.
Next in line comes the Strikers and Controllers (which I don't have enough data to discuss, since the only one available at the moment is the wizard, and I'll add my points in the end of the post).
Strikers are quite flexible. Some of them could be built to work much like a Defender, although with some key elements missing. But they really shine when they do what they're meant to: Deal Damage. Strikers are an awesome addition to any party, because damage is never enough. One thing you have to keep in mind when playing one though, is that you're not supposed to stand still toe-to-toe with an opponent, even if it's a weak one. You'll just make the Leader's job harder. The more you refrain from losing your HP, the more the Leader can save for the Defender.
A Few Tried "Tricks" (or some might say, common sense)
Here are a few tips for working in group, some might sound quite obvious, but they showed quite effective on my tables so it doesn't hurt to point some:
Live Together Die Alone: (quite lame i know) It's true, try standing close to your party, do not spread out too far, try working with your group. This is particularly important for Warlords. Some exceptions might occur (and they should), for example the Mobile Unit described above should be one, also, some monsters force you to spread (dragon breath weapons for example) as that's basicly the real intent of the power.
Hold the Line: essentially an extension of the above hint, the lines discussed earlier are there for a reason, if you try to overextend to reach an enemy too far away, or if you get attacked and run too far back for protection, it's gonna be worse then just standing and die. Listen to what the party have to say (ie. if it's decided that you all should retreat then it's ok), don't make decisions of your own without the party consent. A cleric that leaves his spot to heal a rogue far in front, essentially getting side by side with the Fighter is breaking the line, and so is the rogue (which should do so but not without first measuring the risks).
Focus Fire: you'll find that focusing your team fire on a single target will prove to be quite effective, and that happens basicly for the same reasons as in the preview tip. Enemy Lines obey basicly the same rules as PCs, when you take down a single target from the opposing party, they'll feel it.
Communcation: don't try to make the difference on your own. Communication is imperative. Don't follow the example of that Wizard's Podcast where all the designers/developers etc were just mute (probably they're just shy ) ... I wasn't surprised they got creamed. It's very important too to know each of your party member's capabilities, so you can plan to use yours accordingly.
Example Parties
Finally, some examples on what I feel is best for a party depending on party size
Party of 2
Defender - fighter/paladin any build works.
Leader - preferably a midliner.
Party of 3
Defender - fighter/paladin preferably one that focuses in guarding.
Leader - same as above, if striker is a melee type (ie TWF ranger or rogue) the warlord becomes a very good option.
Striker - any, preferably ranger or rogue.
Party of 4
Defender - same as 3
Leader - depends, see below
Striker - same as 3
Open Spot- two good options:
Party of 5
Defender - Frontliner
Leader - Midliner
Leader - Backliner
Striker - Midliner / Ganker
Open Spot - options:
Party of 6
Defender - Frontliner
Leader - Midliner
Leader - Backliner
Striker - Midliner / Ganker
Wizard - Backliner
Open Spot - options:
Notice that I never put the Wizard as a "required" or solid suggestion up until a party of 6? Am I saying that I don't like wizards or that Controllers suck? No I'm not.
Now I'll try to explain the thing about controllers (more precisely the Wizard since he's the only Controller available atm).
They are good, don't be fooled. But, they only shine (oh and how they shine!) when you're facing a big mob of enemies, be them minions or not. The thing is, when you got a small party, it's likely that the opposing party will meet your expectations, which means, is also going to be small. The larger your party, the larger the enemy forces can be. So that's the reason I think the Wizard should be reserved for larger parties.
Final Considerations
This whole thread is not meant to be taken too seriously, or to the risk. D&D 4E has some room for variety and it's not that tough, even if you make mistakes the chances of succeeding at a given combat are still pretty good with any party, whatever you got in there.
The tips provided in here will only make things a bit easier if you follow them (from my experience). But they assume an "ideal" scenario, which will most likely not going to happen all the time, and it shouldn't anyway. If you find out that it is working quite regularly, either your DM is being too "soft" or your party is really that good, but regardless, if it's too easy, it's not cool enough.
Of course, these are all general assumptions... could work differently on your table, and I'd like to hear what you have experienced thus far!
Ohh, sorry if I made you read through the whole thing....
I guess we all hear that 4E emphasizes team effort rather than individual effort when it comes to combat, so I decided to make a thread discussing how it works, based on my experience so far as a DM and Player, and also trying to use some definitions from other media to explain my points. Feel free to give your thoughts and correct me with your own experience.
There are a few factors that determines how effective a party plays in combat, among them:
The Combat Lines
In battle there are some "immaginary lines" that defines the party formation, whether you want it or not, you'll see that in the end your group, along with the monsters obey this rule.
The Frontline (or meatshield, or tank): these guys are responsible for absorbing most threats threw at the party, effectively protecting the middle and backlines. If something bad happens to your backline, it's often your fault. For obvious reasons, suggested Role for this position is the Defender, although there are a few exceptions. Ideally, the default Frontliner is a guy with heavy defenses (AC mostly) and not that high damage output.
The Midline: the utility the midline provides to the party is quite variable. From the ranger firing arrows/warlock throwing stuff at some called targets, to the battle cleric or the warlord providing support to the whole party while also supporting the frontline in keeping enemies where they should.
The Backline (or squishies): this is where your most dedicated casters stand. Most often the devoted cleric and wizard, they're the ones who need the most protection.
The Mobile Units (or Ganker, or Spiker): these guys requires lots of mobility, their job is to eliminate single specific targets that are making the fight tougher (ie. enemy backline). Ideally you'll be inside the enemy lines more often than not, that's why you need resources that lets you move fast, then deliver your "package" and run back. Also, try not to go too far where the healers on your team can't reach you, as it's advised to the healer on your party NOT break party formation to heal you, a good striker is one that's alive. Suggested classes are the Rogue and TWF Ranger.
The Linebreaker: being a "linebreaker" means advancing through enemy lines, pushing the envelope, shaking them and giving your party some battlefield advantage. The Linebreaker should focus on damage, mobility and surviveability since he'll be overextending. Also, when things go bad on your team's backline, you should quickly go back and help dealing with it. The Great Weapon Fighter and a similar Paladin and even maybe the TWF Ranger are all capable Linebreakers.
Notice how the Mobile Strikers and the Linebreakers looks similar. Don't be fooled though, they have quite different utility and roles. Where the Strikers are moving back and forth and effectively working "solo", the Linebraker is essentially a second tank, only pushing it a bit further.
The Roles
Partially explained above, each role has, well, a role to fill in battle, this is pretty much what the game by itself determines and you can find that information on the DMG/PHB, and here I'll just state my experiences so far and the importance each has when it comes to actual gaming.
The Defender and The Leader are essentially the structure of your party, without them the following things might happen:
1. Without a Leader or two (depending on the size of the party) the chances of survival diminishes alot. At first glance Inspiring/Healing Word mightn ot seem that good, but they are basicly what turns the PCs into PCs and NPCs into NPCs, monsters often have way more HP than any given member of your party (even more so at higher levels) and just as tough when it comes to attacks/defenses.
2. Without a Defender or two (again depending on party size) your party won't be able to stand and is probably going to be overwhelmed by enemy forces. It doesn't seem so, but Defenders are extremely useful, not just because of HP (there's actually not a great difference from a Fighter to a Warlord for example) nor AC (you could make a Cleric or Warlord with the same AC as a Fighter with the right feats, but that wouldn't turn you into a Defender). The thing here is that it's easy for the Leaders to focus their healing on a single target, and the Defender is the best choice to do so. It's easier to keep one person alive while the others are safe, than to keep your whole team alive when they're all in trouble, and the Defender assures that the former will happen.
Next in line comes the Strikers and Controllers (which I don't have enough data to discuss, since the only one available at the moment is the wizard, and I'll add my points in the end of the post).
Strikers are quite flexible. Some of them could be built to work much like a Defender, although with some key elements missing. But they really shine when they do what they're meant to: Deal Damage. Strikers are an awesome addition to any party, because damage is never enough. One thing you have to keep in mind when playing one though, is that you're not supposed to stand still toe-to-toe with an opponent, even if it's a weak one. You'll just make the Leader's job harder. The more you refrain from losing your HP, the more the Leader can save for the Defender.
A Few Tried "Tricks" (or some might say, common sense)
Here are a few tips for working in group, some might sound quite obvious, but they showed quite effective on my tables so it doesn't hurt to point some:
Live Together Die Alone: (quite lame i know) It's true, try standing close to your party, do not spread out too far, try working with your group. This is particularly important for Warlords. Some exceptions might occur (and they should), for example the Mobile Unit described above should be one, also, some monsters force you to spread (dragon breath weapons for example) as that's basicly the real intent of the power.
Hold the Line: essentially an extension of the above hint, the lines discussed earlier are there for a reason, if you try to overextend to reach an enemy too far away, or if you get attacked and run too far back for protection, it's gonna be worse then just standing and die. Listen to what the party have to say (ie. if it's decided that you all should retreat then it's ok), don't make decisions of your own without the party consent. A cleric that leaves his spot to heal a rogue far in front, essentially getting side by side with the Fighter is breaking the line, and so is the rogue (which should do so but not without first measuring the risks).
Focus Fire: you'll find that focusing your team fire on a single target will prove to be quite effective, and that happens basicly for the same reasons as in the preview tip. Enemy Lines obey basicly the same rules as PCs, when you take down a single target from the opposing party, they'll feel it.
Communcation: don't try to make the difference on your own. Communication is imperative. Don't follow the example of that Wizard's Podcast where all the designers/developers etc were just mute (probably they're just shy ) ... I wasn't surprised they got creamed. It's very important too to know each of your party member's capabilities, so you can plan to use yours accordingly.
Example Parties
Finally, some examples on what I feel is best for a party depending on party size
Party of 2
Defender - fighter/paladin any build works.
Leader - preferably a midliner.
Party of 3
Defender - fighter/paladin preferably one that focuses in guarding.
Leader - same as above, if striker is a melee type (ie TWF ranger or rogue) the warlord becomes a very good option.
Striker - any, preferably ranger or rogue.
Party of 4
Defender - same as 3
Leader - depends, see below
Striker - same as 3
Open Spot- two good options:
- 2nd Leader, effectively having a Midline Support (warlord/combat cleric) and a Backline (devoted cleric)
- 2nd Striker, preferably having one melee (TWF ranger/Rogue) and one ranged (Archer Ranger/ Warlock)
Party of 5
Defender - Frontliner
Leader - Midliner
Leader - Backliner
Striker - Midliner / Ganker
Open Spot - options:
- another striker, Midliner / Ganker (choose the one not selected above)
- another defender working as a Linebreaker
- a controller (wizard)
Party of 6
Defender - Frontliner
Leader - Midliner
Leader - Backliner
Striker - Midliner / Ganker
Wizard - Backliner
Open Spot - options:
- Striker Midliner / Ganker (choose the one not selected above)
- Defender Linebreaker
Notice that I never put the Wizard as a "required" or solid suggestion up until a party of 6? Am I saying that I don't like wizards or that Controllers suck? No I'm not.
Now I'll try to explain the thing about controllers (more precisely the Wizard since he's the only Controller available atm).
They are good, don't be fooled. But, they only shine (oh and how they shine!) when you're facing a big mob of enemies, be them minions or not. The thing is, when you got a small party, it's likely that the opposing party will meet your expectations, which means, is also going to be small. The larger your party, the larger the enemy forces can be. So that's the reason I think the Wizard should be reserved for larger parties.
Final Considerations
This whole thread is not meant to be taken too seriously, or to the risk. D&D 4E has some room for variety and it's not that tough, even if you make mistakes the chances of succeeding at a given combat are still pretty good with any party, whatever you got in there.
The tips provided in here will only make things a bit easier if you follow them (from my experience). But they assume an "ideal" scenario, which will most likely not going to happen all the time, and it shouldn't anyway. If you find out that it is working quite regularly, either your DM is being too "soft" or your party is really that good, but regardless, if it's too easy, it's not cool enough.
Of course, these are all general assumptions... could work differently on your table, and I'd like to hear what you have experienced thus far!
Ohh, sorry if I made you read through the whole thing....
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