Jefe Bergenstein
Legend
I've always looked at the wealth guidelines as a party whole. One of my players has fewer magic items than the others because he keeps passing on treasure when its divided up.
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Party Magic Pool
- Thread starter Kestrel
- Start date
JonMonster
First Post
Let 'em sell it and then almost immediately hit them with a situation where they'll wish they had a flying combat mount. If your players are anything like I am as a player you'll have to do this three or four times and then explain to them what you are doing. Then explain it again using small words and diagrams. Eventually they'll learn that you're not giving them slick little 'get out of trouble' magic items for your own health.
PallidPatience
First Post
What level are they? If they can easily attain flight under their own power already, then that item is practically useless to them unless they ARE geared toward mounted combat, specifically.
Kestrel
Explorer
Removing the economy or lowering the sale value of the items is probably the best method for achieving what I want from items.
The point is that I want to be able to give them different items, sometimes useful, sometimes just quirky, outside of the normal gear that PCs expect. They get enough enough gear to keep them up with the Joneses. This was the extra stuff.
I wanted to come up with a way to quantify it, thats was the purpose of the original post. A numerical guideline for the magic that is above and beyond the norm.
The point is that I want to be able to give them different items, sometimes useful, sometimes just quirky, outside of the normal gear that PCs expect. They get enough enough gear to keep them up with the Joneses. This was the extra stuff.
I wanted to come up with a way to quantify it, thats was the purpose of the original post. A numerical guideline for the magic that is above and beyond the norm.
Kestrel said:
You already have one - the same guideline for that which is up to the norm. The value of a figurine of wondrous power is not changed by the fact that the character has a magical sword already.
It seems to me that all you're really getting at is that you want to exceed the wealth guidelines. Nothing wrong with that, especially if it isn't going far about the guidelines. Just think a bit about what extra power and ability you're giving them as you build your encounters.
Dealign with our player's psychology with the accounting stuff is another matter. You could tell them you are exceeding the guidelines, but not tell them what you new guidelines are. But I'm not sure that would do the trick.
PallidPatience
First Post
The problem is that if the market price exceeds the actual value of the item, selling it is the best possible choice. If it's not worth selling, however, it's probably worth keeping. Decide what level it would be an appropriate item to have, and price it so that a character of that level could afford to buy it. That will lower the market price, which will lower the sale price, which will increase the relative appreciation of its true value.
But if they can all already fly, and none of them gains any advantages for mounted combat, and there is no need for additional targets for the enemy in combat, it simply won't be worth keeping.
But if they can all already fly, and none of them gains any advantages for mounted combat, and there is no need for additional targets for the enemy in combat, it simply won't be worth keeping.
Jeph said:
Oops, my bad. This is a much more difficult problem. I don't know if this will work for you, but here's what I started doing when my group started a new campaign.
I create item cards for every item the characters get, with a brief description. What I do not put on the card is a cost. If the characters really don't want something, they go to the Bazaar to sell it - and that's when they find out what they can get for it. I've already told them that I'm not automatically going by DMG pricing (which I consider very, very flawed) so this isn't a surprise to them. Just by not immediately equating an item with a gp value, I find they first think how they can use the item, and only second, what it can be sold/traded for. Of course, we also don't worry about one character getting more loot than another - it always evens out over time.
Again, I'm not sure this will help - if your players are insistent on giving everyone "equal" shares of treasure, it will be hard to change them. Hope things work out for you.
Maldor
First Post
the reason people keep stuff is becuase it has more value to them then it does to some one else
player are very good at judging the value of a item to there characters and a lot of items are overpriced for what they do and being good it one type of situation is not a good reason to keep a item you'll want things that are useful in alot of situation not just one or two
and this JonMonster Let 'em sell it and then almost immediately hit them with a situation where they'll wish they had a flying combat mount. If your players are anything like I am as a player you'll have to do this three or four times and then explain to them what you are doing. Then explain it again using small words and diagrams. Eventually they'll learn that you're not giving them slick little 'get out of trouble' magic items for your own health.
is railroading
player are very good at judging the value of a item to there characters and a lot of items are overpriced for what they do and being good it one type of situation is not a good reason to keep a item you'll want things that are useful in alot of situation not just one or two
and this JonMonster Let 'em sell it and then almost immediately hit them with a situation where they'll wish they had a flying combat mount. If your players are anything like I am as a player you'll have to do this three or four times and then explain to them what you are doing. Then explain it again using small words and diagrams. Eventually they'll learn that you're not giving them slick little 'get out of trouble' magic items for your own health.
is railroading
The other thing about the Bronze Griffon is it is usable for 6 hours, twice per week. So even if the group does have a aerial mounted combat character, he's still only going to be using it 1/4 of a day, twice a week. Weigh that against a 10,000gp item, sold for half and split (on average) four ways, and we're looking at 1,250gp per person. (Just going by the guidelines in the book.)
However, I have a little inside information on Kestrel's game, and I know for instance that its an 8 person group, so that particular item (going by the guidelines) is only going to split up to 625gp per person. And considering that we're on an airship and going to Sharn, having a Bronze Griffon is probably going to be more useful in the next couple of sessions than it would if we were about to go spelunking (which is the adventure we just finished). So that's why I felt the group should hang on to it, at least for a little while. (On the whole, I am much more of a fan of keeping items and distributing them according to need than liquidating them and buying more specialized items.)
However, I have a little inside information on Kestrel's game, and I know for instance that its an 8 person group, so that particular item (going by the guidelines) is only going to split up to 625gp per person. And considering that we're on an airship and going to Sharn, having a Bronze Griffon is probably going to be more useful in the next couple of sessions than it would if we were about to go spelunking (which is the adventure we just finished). So that's why I felt the group should hang on to it, at least for a little while. (On the whole, I am much more of a fan of keeping items and distributing them according to need than liquidating them and buying more specialized items.)
JonMonster
First Post
Maldor said:
You say that like its a bad thing.
But I'm not sure this is railroading. Is it railroading if they find a key today and the chest that it opens next week? Hardly. Perhaps I was a bit overdramatic in my suggestion that you tell the players that a lot of the niche magic items they encounter might be useful down the road, but I don't see anything wrong with punishing...no wait, that's a bad word...I don't see anything wrong with holding players accountable when they (short sightedly) sell useful magic items.
"They're searching for the princess and after killing some of the bad guy's henchmen they find a trove of underwater breathing potions. They shout, "cha-ching!" and hock them immediately. Then the next week they discover that the princess is being held by kuo-toa in a prison at the bottom of the sea. Sucks to be them." That ain't railroading.
