Party screwed up big time. How to fix it?

[CubeKnight]

Anyway, to start things with, I'm the DM (also, our game has a load of houserules, but that's not that relevant in this case), and I'd like some advice on how to handle this situation, as I'm mostly a newbie DM (this is the first campaign I've gotten more than a dozen sessions).

The story so far: The PCs, working for a mercenary company of sorts, were ordered to go and raid an enemy keep (one of the BBEG's HQs) located on a mountain range. Said keep changes location every day, being seen as far as 100 kms (that's around 60 miles, according to google) from the previous location, and thus is quite hard to track. After some events, the party manages to track it, defeat the (really high CR) guard keeping watch on the entrance, go in, and after raiding most of the keep, they come across what looks like a small arena inside the keep. Here, I start throwing out signs that it's really dangerous, and they shouldn't go in there. Well, they do anyways, and long story short, they end up running away from there (enraged magically-enhanced animals running wild inside) retreating back outside the keep to heal and rest.

Now, the problem starts here: I had planned on the guard raising from the ice as an Entombed (Libris Mortis), and facing the party again, while the Keep started to translocate, the ice all around them collapsing due to the magic. Now, if the party managed to defeat the Entombed before the translocation was complete, the spell would fizzle, and start destroying the keep (think Howl's Moving Castle, if you've seen it).

Being the kind DM I am, I waited for the party to heal, and then I started describing the tremors and the like, with the guard crawling out of the ice he was encased in. The party starts to run away, they can't make the DCs for the Jump/Climb checks, and start claiming railroad. After some arguing, when I mention it's been a few minutes, they tell me they didn't tell me they were still next to the keep, that they were running away from it. I end up giving in, and retcon them into running away, hiding in a cave, and feeling the small scale earthquake from there.

However, due to an off-hand comment I made on how they missed the central room leading to the basement, they now feel they didn't accomplish anything, that I'm railroading them, and are just generally raging that they won't be able to go back. (btw, I was just joking, there is no such room. Not like their PCs have any way to know there's one)

I should probably mention, this adventure is partially the personal quest of one of the PCs, as said guard had massacred many members of his tribe, and if they successfully completed it, I'd remove his LA as a reward (he's a Goliath), and he'd make up with his clan, being accepted as a tribe member once more after being exiled. There's no penalty for going back with their tail between their legs, 'sides from not getting the rewards and their boss being disappointed in them.

Now, what should I do to both keep the story going and quell their rage? There's no logical way they should be able to track the keep again (what should happen, IMO), and I don't want to go with a copout "It was all a dream" or "It was a vision from the future" (suggestion from the single PC who isn't raging to quell the others)

Attaching game log, the situation starts at around line #898. And sorry for the huge post >_< I tried to keep it short, but evidently failed.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

Well, first, never tell them what they missed. Second make your style and the type of game you are running clear to the players. Accusations of railroading and the like are indication of issues of trust between the DM and the players and you should discuss this with your players and see if a common ground can be reached. That said, you must not be bullied by the player into giving them everything they want either. That kind of game is no fun at all.
That said, in the specific case presented, I would continue with the campaing but allow the party to discover over the course of a a couple of adventures clues to the existance of a ritual that can track these type of buildings. Make the discovery of the ritual and any necessary components a quest in itself.
Once they have the ritual they can make a magical whatsit that can track the castle. Now they just need a means of getting there before it moves again. I would make the magical device such that it is not portable and specific to this castle. For instance it may have to include some items that they located in the castle to aquire a lock on that specific castle (the principle of contagion and all that).

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I haven't read the attached text file, just your post, so this are my ideas based on only that information:


There is always a danger in trying to predict the player characters action - and it seems that is what is "wrecking" your plan now. Sometimes you just have to go with what happened. Retroactively changing things (that the players have witnessed) is often disappointing. If it is based on a mutual misunderstanding ("I thought you wanted to do X" "No, I considered it, but we haven't decided yet" or something like that), it might work.

I suppose the only thing to do now is to roll with the punches and decide what the consequences are for the party, and how they might be able to deal with it.

Maybe:
Finding the Keep again could b a new quest. Maybe after having visted it and being able to leave alive, they have a connection to it that makes it easier, provided they find the right McGuffin. (Person, magic item, ritual, spell).

To keep things interesting, you could change something about the Keep when they return - maybe some other party has entered it and is trying to take control. Maybe someone is following the PCs tracks since they know they might find it again.

The challenge - if you choose to accept it - is to find a way to build based on your original, screwed over assumptions and plot, and the things the players did to "screw" it.

This message will destroy itself in 5 Billion Years.

 

[Janx]

Here we go:

1) don't put it in the game, if you don't want the players to interact with it. If you put in the big danger room with a do not enter sign on it, the players will try to get in and get killed. You wasted their time, and derailed the story with that room.

2) you have a mobile HQ. A mobile HQ is useless if the bad guys can't find it or get to it. If the bad guys can get to it, your players can find a bad guy who knows how to find it, thus solving the problem.

More specifically, while the players are licking their wounds at the cave, bemoaning the fact that the keep is gone (how'd they find it in the first place?), have a bad guy patrol show up to the keep and have THEM bemoan the fact that they missed it and now they've got to get to the next location. They can either mention the schedule (so the players hear it), or mention enough information that the party knows the bad guys have the answer so they can attack and get it.

 

[Janx]

an addendum.

I didn't read all your extra material. Don't care to...but here's some more thoughts.

If this tower and killing some guy was the assigned quest of a PC, he should have had more data.

For one thing, you don't get assigned the quest to the hard to find tower without being given some info about where it is or where it will be, and that it moves. Otherwise, everybody knows where it is, and it doesn't move.

Additionally, if the PC didn't know that, he'd never find it, because finding it by chance WOULD be railroading.

Assuming the PC has minimal information, we know it moves, and we know that it will be at the river on Sunday, he has a chance to get there.

Since he knows it moves, he knows to be wary of it moving again, if he takes too long. Sharing this information actually helps you instill urgency and explains BEFORE it happens why it disappeared. Thus it isn't railroading when it moves.

During the adventure, like when they are in the tower, give them more clues. Overhearing guards, or finding messages (because one of the dead guards was delivering it within the tower) will let you reveal other basic features of the tower. Like the fact that it will move at Noon, or that so and so can move it if the tower is attacked.

You can also use this trick to reveal the nature of other rooms, before the party gets there. Learning that the facility has a testing chamber for a new breed of monster and that the fatality rate of gladiators is pretty high would be useful. The party may decide once they find the chamber that they don't need to enter it, as it has nothing to do with the quest.

You don't have to explain how and why everything works in game or out of game. But you should provide basic explanations for what the party will find/has found in game. Especially of the art pieces like the danger room. They didn't need to enter it. If you don't have other game elements make that obvious, then they are going to enter it.

There's a lot of ways to get the game back on track. You don't want to railroad them, but if they choose to finish it, make a way that is obvious on how to get back to the mission. Failure sucks. Don't make it even harder, or you'll discourage them, and lose your pacing.

 

[CubeKnight]

Everyone, thanks for your replies. Good insight here, as expected . I'll do a quick reply before I leave and post a more in-dept reply to everyone when I come back:

If this tower and killing some guy was the assigned quest of a PC, he should have had more data.

It's one of those quests that happen by chance- The party knew those mountains were the PC's home, but they didn't know his tribe had been involved on it.

For one thing, you don't get assigned the quest to the hard to find tower without being given some info about where it is or where it will be, and that it moves. Otherwise, everybody knows where it is, and it doesn't move.

They were told it moves, and that it most likely happens once a day.

Additionally, if the PC didn't know that, he'd never find it, because finding it by chance WOULD be railroading.

They knew that storms usually surrounded the places the keep teleported to, and yes, you can actually claim railroading on finding it. I rather call it convenient casuality >_>

Assuming the PC has minimal information, we know it moves, and we know that it will be at the river on Sunday, he has a chance to get there.

IIRC, they know it moves, the place it was the previous day, and that blizzards surround the place it's currently in.

Since he knows it moves, he knows to be wary of it moving again, if he takes too long. Sharing this information actually helps you instill urgency and explains BEFORE it happens why it disappeared. Thus it isn't railroading when it moves.

Yeah, that's why I was kinda surprised when they decided to just leave and run away from it. They fully knew it'd be next to impossible to find it again.

During the adventure, like when they are in the tower, give them more clues. Overhearing guards, or finding messages (because one of the dead guards was delivering it within the tower) will let you reveal other basic features of the tower. Like the fact that it will move at Noon, or that so and so can move it if the tower is attacked.

All the 'guards' inside were ice beast, but I'll keep this in mind for next time.

You can also use this trick to reveal the nature of other rooms, before the party gets there. Learning that the facility has a testing chamber for a new breed of monster and that the fatality rate of gladiators is pretty high would be useful. The party may decide once they find the chamber that they don't need to enter it, as it has nothing to do with the quest.

I skipped this in my summary, but yeah, I fully described the arena as filled with bloodstained weapon, armors, bloodstains everywhere in the floor, told them the monsters on the other side were clearly unnatural, etc.

You don't have to explain how and why everything works in game or out of game. But you should provide basic explanations for what the party will find/has found in game. Especially of the art pieces like the danger room. They didn't need to enter it. If you don't have other game elements make that obvious, then they are going to enter it.

Well... a chamber filled with nothing but beasts. I'm still wondering why they decided they had to go in.

There's a lot of ways to get the game back on track. You don't want to railroad them, but if they choose to finish it, make a way that is obvious on how to get back to the mission. Failure sucks. Don't make it even harder, or you'll discourage them, and lose your pacing.

As I said, there's no penalty for going back as they are. Their mission was to thrash the place, and they mostly accomplished that. They only think they failed because an off-hand comment I made while joking, which they took seriously and, even if the PCs have no way of knowing, want to go back to search for that last room.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

snip

I'm still wondering why they decided they had to go in
snip

Because it is there. It is a thing people do, if you describe it players assume it is important, because otherwise why mention it. It is made worse by experience with crpgs and the like where you pretty much have to clear every room or you might miss something.

 

[CubeKnight]

Well, first, never tell them what they missed. Second make your style and the type of game you are running clear to the players. Accusations of railroading and the like are indication of issues of trust between the DM and the players and you should discuss this with your players and see if a common ground can be reached. That said, you must not be bullied by the player into giving them everything they want either. That kind of game is no fun at all.
That said, in the specific case presented, I would continue with the campaing but allow the party to discover over the course of a a couple of adventures clues to the existance of a ritual that can track these type of buildings. Make the discovery of the ritual and any necessary components a quest in itself.
Once they have the ritual they can make a magical whatsit that can track the castle. Now they just need a means of getting there before it moves again. I would make the magical device such that it is not portable and specific to this castle. For instance it may have to include some items that they located in the castle to aquire a lock on that specific castle (the principle of contagion and all that).

The same player as before had a good idea: The party has a pet winter wolf helping them around, he's from the same area and considers the party his "pack". Inside the dungeon, he took a sip of what's best described as magical liquid nitrogen, and he lucked out on the Fort save (Nat 20, IIRC). Perhaps this could "bind" him to the castle, and allow him to sense its direction?

I haven't read the attached text file, just your post, so this are my ideas based on only that information:

There is always a danger in trying to predict the player characters action - and it seems that is what is "wrecking" your plan now. Sometimes you just have to go with what happened. Retroactively changing things (that the players have witnessed) is often disappointing. If it is based on a mutual misunderstanding ("I thought you wanted to do X" "No, I considered it, but we haven't decided yet" or something like that), it might work.

I suppose the only thing to do now is to roll with the punches and decide what the consequences are for the party, and how they might be able to deal with it.

Maybe:
Finding the Keep again could b a new quest. Maybe after having visted it and being able to leave alive, they have a connection to it that makes it easier, provided they find the right McGuffin. (Person, magic item, ritual, spell).

To keep things interesting, you could change something about the Keep when they return - maybe some other party has entered it and is trying to take control. Maybe someone is following the PCs tracks since they know they might find it again.

The challenge - if you choose to accept it - is to find a way to build based on your original, screwed over assumptions and plot, and the things the players did to "screw" it.

This message will destroy itself in 5 Billion Years.

I'm still a bit miffed on why the PCs are so insistent on going back to the castle. All they have to go for it is OOC information.

Here we go:

1) don't put it in the game, if you don't want the players to interact with it. If you put in the big danger room with a do not enter sign on it, the players will try to get in and get killed. You wasted their time, and derailed the story with that room.

2) you have a mobile HQ. A mobile HQ is useless if the bad guys can't find it or get to it. If the bad guys can get to it, your players can find a bad guy who knows how to find it, thus solving the problem.

More specifically, while the players are licking their wounds at the cave, bemoaning the fact that the keep is gone (how'd they find it in the first place?), have a bad guy patrol show up to the keep and have THEM bemoan the fact that they missed it and now they've got to get to the next location. They can either mention the schedule (so the players hear it), or mention enough information that the party knows the bad guys have the answer so they can attack and get it.

1) Yeah, I don't know why I was hoping the PCs would actually avoid it. They are PCs, after all.
2) The way I was considering it'd work: The single intelligent creature in the castle is the guard at the entrance. He's in charge of moving the place around, and keeping it safe. The BBEG contacts him telepathically to know the castle's current position.

Because it is there. It is a thing people do, if you describe it players assume it is important, because otherwise why mention it. It is made worse by experience with crpgs and the like where you pretty much have to clear every room or you might miss something.

Yeah, as I mention above, I did learn my lesson on this one.

 

[thecasualoblivion]

Simplest solution is always the TPK. Rocks fall, everybody dies!

...I kid, I kid,