Pass without Trace vs. Scent

[Magic Slim]

Follow-up question, Would a Troglodyte Ranger or Druid of high-enough level have his Stench ability negated?

Slim

 

[coyote6]

I asked the Sage about this two years ago.

> If the character were also invisible, could they still be _detected_
> via Scent?

Yes.

> Or does Pass Without Trace (and Gwaeron's Boots)
> effectively act as Invisibility to Scent?

No.

 

[billd91]

That's what I ruled, if only because there is no other spell that could be interpreted as providing the equivalent of "Invisibility vs. Scent," so if PWT doesn't work that way, parties with access to scent will be able to detect nearly everybody within 30 feet all the time. The party for which I DM gets a lot of use out of Scent, so I didn't feel bad letting the occasional NPC with "Pass Without Trace" be undetectable via Scent. They detect almost everyone who ever tries to sneak up on them.

The Metallian

I don't think I would consider ruling that Pass Without Trace makes the creature invisible to scent any more than it makes the creature invisible to being spotted from a distance. Pass without Trace just means that it leaves no trace of its passing that can be found after it moves along. It doesn't mean that you can't see it walking some distance ahead of you as long as its within visual range nor that you can't smell it if within range.
By the way, why not use Spot for detection by scent? It works reasonably well as long as you're willing to make some allowances for removing bonuses for visual acuity. I use it for creatures with scent to detect something in the area that they smell even if they can't actually see it.
I don't think scent should be automatic. There are problems with being upwind of what you're trying to smell, correctly interpreting what you're smelling, and all that.

 

[sierzadon]

Quote from earlier suggestion:

Viper: "there she is".
Sorc: "there she is" ( could be a move eq. action by a mean DM)

add:
Sorc: Glitterdust (instead of burning hands)

NOW the fighter can "banzai"...


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[Majere]

Pass without Trace
You are untrackable, you leave no signs of your passing
HOWEVER
Some dork standing a field can still bee seen even if you can see footprints leading from one end of the field towards him

Hide from animals defeats scent

 

[Nail]

I ruled that the pass without trace ability meant no track or scent was "left behind", but the hag still had a scent that could be detect while she was present.

The rules (ignoring the Sage, for a moment) seem to allow both interpretations. And the relatively minor benefit doesn't upset the power level of the spell....depending on your campaign.

I'm tempted to think about it in terms of the "Theory of Magic". That is: this spell does not affect the ground over which the spell caster walks; rather, it affects the caster herself. Therefore, the only way to prevent "signs of passage" is to prevent them from being left in the first place. IOW, the creature makes no tracks and gives off no scent.

So a creature walking over snow.....would walk on top of the snow! Ouch....I'm not sure I like that.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

The rules (ignoring the Sage, for a moment) seem to allow both interpretations. And the relatively minor benefit doesn't upset the power level of the spell....depending on your campaign.

I'm tempted to think about it in terms of the "Theory of Magic". That is: this spell does not affect the ground over which the spell caster walks; rather, it affects the caster herself. Therefore, the only way to prevent "signs of passage" is to prevent them from being left in the first place. IOW, the creature makes no tracks and gives off no scent.

So a creature walking over snow.....would walk on top of the snow! Ouch....I'm not sure I like that.

Preventing signs of passage in the first place is the simplest option from a scientific POV. Even then it is hardly the only workable choice. I do not see why a magical world need be more restricted in its possibilities than the real world.

As for the "Invisibility to Scent" theory, that is a perfectly workable house rule. It is not supported by the rules as written.

From DMG 3.5, page 298: "SCENT: This extraordinary ability lets a creature detect approaching enemies, sniff out hidden foes, and track by sense of smell."

'Sniff out hidden foes' and 'track by sense of smell' are listed as two separate features. The rest of the description even spells out completely different mechanics for the two activities.

There is really no ambiguity here.

 

[Metallian]

Pass without Trace
Hide from animals defeats scent

Hmm, what about a Humanoid (as opposed to an Animal) with Scent? I'm getting kind of tired of him being able to detect everything, to be honest, and that probably subconsciously influenced my interpretation of Pass Without Trace.

The Metallian

 

[TuDogz]

PWT is the spell component for Dust of Tracelessness which affects the trail after the impressions have been made. PWT is not air walk or water walking. It should not keep you from contacting the earth it simply removes the damage you create after you move your big foot out of the way. It says your do not LEAVE scent or footprints not that you don't initially create them.

___________________
Dust of Tracelessness:
....
A handful of dust sprinkled along a trail causes evidence of the passage of as many as a dozen men and horses to be obliterated for 250 feet back into the distance. The results of the dust are instantaneous, and no magical aura lingers afterward from this use of the dust. Survival checks made to track a quarry across an area affected by this dust have a DC 20 higher than normal.
____________________

I think you ruled correctly and that the snake should be able to find the hag while she was within his scent range. As soon as she gets more than thirty feat away all hints of her are gone. This means the Trog thing would not work. If the snake can find her the Trog scent would still be in effect as well.

Careful with the precedents you set. I can already see terrible abuses by Half-Orcs and Dwarves who don't care for bathing.

 

[DM2]

PWT is the spell component for Dust of Tracelessness which affects the trail after the impressions have been made. PWT is not air walk or water walking. It should not keep you from contacting the earth it simply removes the damage you create after you move your big foot out of the way. It says your do not LEAVE scent or footprints not that you don't initially create them.

First, that the spell is a pre-req for a magic item has no bearing at all on what the effects of the spell are. None.

Second, if, as you say, the footprints are not left, then they must disappear as soon as the foot is lifted.

By that logic, you can easily assume the scent isn't left, and therefore disappears as soon as the creature moves a few feet to the side.

You seem to be suggesting that footprints and smell are left behind for some unspecified period of time, or at some unspecified distance from the creature, but disappear when the creature moves some unspecified distance away....

It seems simpler and more consistent to just say the scent and foot prints don't go beyond the actual location of the creature...not 30' away, not 10' away, not 5' away.

This would mean, indeed, that the viper can't track an invisible creature that is using pass without trace whether it is 200 feet away, 30 feet away, or 5 feet away.

DM2