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Pathfinder 2's Armor & A Preview of the Paladin!
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<blockquote data-quote="Zansy" data-source="post: 7745852" data-attributes="member: 6788194"><p>A sound, relatively objective observation. I would like to expand on that, as I think that the <strong>amount</strong> of different things a paladin must adhere to is also under controversy. For example, I think that the paladin adhering to his alignment, his deity's philosophies, his deity's anathema, and a universal code of conduct on top of it all, with only the deity being somewhat of a choice - is overkill and unstable when one error while consulting your (basically paizo's-) apparently universal judgment could cost you your class features. </p><p></p><p>(EDIT: another controversial point waiting to happen: how do you prioritize those different categories of restrictions? In the event of hypothetical conflict, Is the code of conduct more or less important than your deity's anathema? And to what extent? ) </p><p></p><p> The current paladin prioritizes good over law, but I think you should be able to make more choices of what's the most important to your own order of paladins, like have the right to rank your code of conduct for yourself (but must stay consistent to your own hierarchy), or have the option(heck - even an optional rule!) to deviate from at least one of these restrictions (alignment/deity/CoC) without being judged as "not a paladin". </p><p></p><p>That being said, some others here prefer that the paladin had more things to commit to, some people thrive creatively on limitation, though I really don't see why that template of limitations couldn't fit within a bigger net of options.</p><p> </p><p>Finally, to say that ALL paladins adhere to this code of conduct, (or even all LG paladins do) in that very order of priorities is naive and absurd. Even if you <strong>are</strong> restricted to being Lawful and good, even if it is "just for the playtest", there are some people who are Lawful first and Good second, and not just vice versa ("GL" ) which is what this code of conduct is geared at. Paizo's hierarchy of tenets is for GL paladins, which is even more specific than your normal Lawful good because it's specifically the belief that good always trumps law. To paizo's credit, they're on to something when they say that some tenets can be more important than others, but what do they care so much about how my specific paladin at the table prioritizes those rules? </p><p></p><p>our GL paladins follow their given alignment. CoC dictates our biggest priorities are so and so, in this order, uniformly, unfailingly, and universally, as paladins. Our deities tell us even more things we must never, ever do. One false move on any of these fronts will cost these paladins <em>big</em>. Even if the designers are trying to avoid moral dilemmas that ruin the Paladin's day, the misjudgments of their efforts will likely result in them making it exceptionally difficult for themselves, and for everyone else to adhere to all of it, and all the easier to put together new or additional moral dilemmas that conflict between those types of restrictions. the more limitations they put in, that stack on each other like crude patchwork, the more holes consumers are bound to find within it. Players and GMs alike are going to find the holes in that complex patchwork of paladin rules, and strike the chink in the paladins' Legendary armor where it hurts them most.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Zansy, post: 7745852, member: 6788194"] A sound, relatively objective observation. I would like to expand on that, as I think that the [B]amount[/B] of different things a paladin must adhere to is also under controversy. For example, I think that the paladin adhering to his alignment, his deity's philosophies, his deity's anathema, and a universal code of conduct on top of it all, with only the deity being somewhat of a choice - is overkill and unstable when one error while consulting your (basically paizo's-) apparently universal judgment could cost you your class features. (EDIT: another controversial point waiting to happen: how do you prioritize those different categories of restrictions? In the event of hypothetical conflict, Is the code of conduct more or less important than your deity's anathema? And to what extent? ) The current paladin prioritizes good over law, but I think you should be able to make more choices of what's the most important to your own order of paladins, like have the right to rank your code of conduct for yourself (but must stay consistent to your own hierarchy), or have the option(heck - even an optional rule!) to deviate from at least one of these restrictions (alignment/deity/CoC) without being judged as "not a paladin". That being said, some others here prefer that the paladin had more things to commit to, some people thrive creatively on limitation, though I really don't see why that template of limitations couldn't fit within a bigger net of options. Finally, to say that ALL paladins adhere to this code of conduct, (or even all LG paladins do) in that very order of priorities is naive and absurd. Even if you [B]are[/B] restricted to being Lawful and good, even if it is "just for the playtest", there are some people who are Lawful first and Good second, and not just vice versa ("GL" ) which is what this code of conduct is geared at. Paizo's hierarchy of tenets is for GL paladins, which is even more specific than your normal Lawful good because it's specifically the belief that good always trumps law. To paizo's credit, they're on to something when they say that some tenets can be more important than others, but what do they care so much about how my specific paladin at the table prioritizes those rules? our GL paladins follow their given alignment. CoC dictates our biggest priorities are so and so, in this order, uniformly, unfailingly, and universally, as paladins. Our deities tell us even more things we must never, ever do. One false move on any of these fronts will cost these paladins [I]big[/I]. Even if the designers are trying to avoid moral dilemmas that ruin the Paladin's day, the misjudgments of their efforts will likely result in them making it exceptionally difficult for themselves, and for everyone else to adhere to all of it, and all the easier to put together new or additional moral dilemmas that conflict between those types of restrictions. the more limitations they put in, that stack on each other like crude patchwork, the more holes consumers are bound to find within it. Players and GMs alike are going to find the holes in that complex patchwork of paladin rules, and strike the chink in the paladins' Legendary armor where it hurts them most. [/QUOTE]
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