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Pathfinder 2's Armor & A Preview of the Paladin!
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<blockquote data-quote="Kobold Boots" data-source="post: 7746101" data-attributes="member: 92239"><p>Where I come from (the land of gamers founded in the late 70s early 80s) Paladins were folks of great virtue who were called to becoming paladins and empowered by their deity to do great work. Deities have churches and as such virtue and answering the call is a social pact that brings with it devotion. There is no separation of virtue from devotion or you aren't a paladin.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I agree with you take on how paladins act but they are not independent of their deities or they wouldn't "fall". Additionally, at the point where the paladin answers the call of "good" you're personifying "good" or it wouldn't call or empower the paladin in the first place. They are special because they are better in the eyes of some greater power. Whether you actually call it a deity in your game or not is up to you, but if it shows favor, it's functionally a deity. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't blame the realms. I blame the first edition rules which stated that a paladin who fell needed to do penance to a lawful good cleric of seventh level or higher to get his status back. The logic being that if you needed to go to a LG cleric who by definition must have a deity to gain his status (7th level) then the deity is the one restoring the status.</p><p></p><p>I do appreciate the realms though for clearly stating that not all paladins served deities directly with a line that said "those paladins that serve the gods". Logic being there are those that do and those that don't. Regardless, having to go to a leveled cleric, which was the case through second edition pretty much set the tone for the game system that the Realms followed.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm down with the capricious deity theorem, save for the fact that not all deities are capricious any more than any mortal may be. That's a matter for DM interpretation.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'll agree to disagree with you on this.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Kobold Boots, post: 7746101, member: 92239"] Where I come from (the land of gamers founded in the late 70s early 80s) Paladins were folks of great virtue who were called to becoming paladins and empowered by their deity to do great work. Deities have churches and as such virtue and answering the call is a social pact that brings with it devotion. There is no separation of virtue from devotion or you aren't a paladin. I agree with you take on how paladins act but they are not independent of their deities or they wouldn't "fall". Additionally, at the point where the paladin answers the call of "good" you're personifying "good" or it wouldn't call or empower the paladin in the first place. They are special because they are better in the eyes of some greater power. Whether you actually call it a deity in your game or not is up to you, but if it shows favor, it's functionally a deity. I don't blame the realms. I blame the first edition rules which stated that a paladin who fell needed to do penance to a lawful good cleric of seventh level or higher to get his status back. The logic being that if you needed to go to a LG cleric who by definition must have a deity to gain his status (7th level) then the deity is the one restoring the status. I do appreciate the realms though for clearly stating that not all paladins served deities directly with a line that said "those paladins that serve the gods". Logic being there are those that do and those that don't. Regardless, having to go to a leveled cleric, which was the case through second edition pretty much set the tone for the game system that the Realms followed. I'm down with the capricious deity theorem, save for the fact that not all deities are capricious any more than any mortal may be. That's a matter for DM interpretation. I'll agree to disagree with you on this. [/QUOTE]
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