Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Pathfinder 2's Armor & A Preview of the Paladin!
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="TheCosmicKid" data-source="post: 7746119" data-attributes="member: 6683613"><p>Obviously different people write laws for different reasons. But justice is one of those reasons. And since this conversation is about lawful good paladins rather than lawful evil tyrants, justice makes a whole lot of sense here.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I'd say that the best way to understand the paladin's worldview as something which a sensible three-dimensional character might actually want to follow, as opposed to a contradictory mess with which to torment lawful stupid strawmen, is to view it as a synthesis. "Lawful" and "good" are not two attributes -- "lawful good" is a single attribute. A paladin swears one oath, not two. Depending on the campaign, they might not even be <em>aware</em> of the distinction between law and good as we define them -- what we think of as "lawful good" they are just as likely to think of with a one-word label like, oh, "justice". So attempting to design a conundrum along these lines is assuming premises that the paladin rejects.</p><p></p><p>That's not to say that paladins can never face difficult choices. But they're not going to be difficult because one horn of the dilemma is "good" and the other horn is "lawful"; they're going to be difficult because both horns are "lawful good" in different ways. To take the executing-an-innocent scenario as you have analyzed it, carrying out the execution is both lawful and good because it upholds the general faith in the law which protects and benefits society, and stopping the execution is both lawful and good because it prevents a perversion of the law and saves a life. Now, by <em>my</em> analysis if I were playing the paladin, I would not see any good in using the death of an innocent as a means to an end, but that wouldn't turn this into a dilemma between law and good either: it would just make the wrong choice obvious, rendering this not a dilemma at all.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="TheCosmicKid, post: 7746119, member: 6683613"] Obviously different people write laws for different reasons. But justice is one of those reasons. And since this conversation is about lawful good paladins rather than lawful evil tyrants, justice makes a whole lot of sense here. I'd say that the best way to understand the paladin's worldview as something which a sensible three-dimensional character might actually want to follow, as opposed to a contradictory mess with which to torment lawful stupid strawmen, is to view it as a synthesis. "Lawful" and "good" are not two attributes -- "lawful good" is a single attribute. A paladin swears one oath, not two. Depending on the campaign, they might not even be [I]aware[/I] of the distinction between law and good as we define them -- what we think of as "lawful good" they are just as likely to think of with a one-word label like, oh, "justice". So attempting to design a conundrum along these lines is assuming premises that the paladin rejects. That's not to say that paladins can never face difficult choices. But they're not going to be difficult because one horn of the dilemma is "good" and the other horn is "lawful"; they're going to be difficult because both horns are "lawful good" in different ways. To take the executing-an-innocent scenario as you have analyzed it, carrying out the execution is both lawful and good because it upholds the general faith in the law which protects and benefits society, and stopping the execution is both lawful and good because it prevents a perversion of the law and saves a life. Now, by [I]my[/I] analysis if I were playing the paladin, I would not see any good in using the death of an innocent as a means to an end, but that wouldn't turn this into a dilemma between law and good either: it would just make the wrong choice obvious, rendering this not a dilemma at all. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Pathfinder 2's Armor & A Preview of the Paladin!
Top