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Pathfinder 2's Armor & A Preview of the Paladin!
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7746717" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>I don't quite see how this bears on the possibiity of a CG "paladin".</p><p></p><p>Again adding the caveat that I'm working from 40 year old AD&D books, a <em>good</em> person (which includes a paladin) values, respects and promotes wellbeing, human rights, truth, beauty and similar valuable things. (Yes, these may come into conflict. No set of D&D alignment rules I'm aware of tells us how to resolve those conflicts, which seems reasonable given that in the real world that is also a matter of debate.)</p><p></p><p>A LG person things that those valuable things are best secured and promoted through social organisation and cooperation. This is why a paladin, as traditionally conceived, must be LG - because the traditional paladin archetype sees service, structured relationships of interpersonal loyalty, community, eand the like as the best and proper ways for securing wellbeing, rights, truth and beauty.</p><p></p><p>A CG person doesn't dispute a LG person's values. S/he disputes that person's sociology and psychology. A CG person thinks that all those valuable things - wellbeing, rights, truth, beauty, etc - are best secured and fostered by individuals pursuing their own self-realisation. There is no absence of an "objective" definition of <em>good</em>. The dispute is about means, not ultimate ends.</p><p></p><p>I would expect a CG "paladin" classs (I use inverted commas because the character wouldn't literally be a paladin) to reflect "bottom up" or anti-establishment conceptions of a heroic and holy figure rather than "top down" noble conceptions: a certain sort of knight errant, or warrior hermit, for instance.</p><p></p><p>I don't really follow this. <em>Devotion</em> isn't the same as <em>enslavement</em>. A holy warrior hermit, who pursues his/her own self-realisation and supports others in doing so, could be devoted to some divine ideal or power (we can see models of or inspiriation for this possibility in real human history, although I'll avoid naming any because of board rules).</p><p></p><p>If that character was to fall short of his/her ideals and devotion, that could bring sanction from the divinity in question.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 7746717, member: 42582"] I don't quite see how this bears on the possibiity of a CG "paladin". Again adding the caveat that I'm working from 40 year old AD&D books, a [I]good[/I] person (which includes a paladin) values, respects and promotes wellbeing, human rights, truth, beauty and similar valuable things. (Yes, these may come into conflict. No set of D&D alignment rules I'm aware of tells us how to resolve those conflicts, which seems reasonable given that in the real world that is also a matter of debate.) A LG person things that those valuable things are best secured and promoted through social organisation and cooperation. This is why a paladin, as traditionally conceived, must be LG - because the traditional paladin archetype sees service, structured relationships of interpersonal loyalty, community, eand the like as the best and proper ways for securing wellbeing, rights, truth and beauty. A CG person doesn't dispute a LG person's values. S/he disputes that person's sociology and psychology. A CG person thinks that all those valuable things - wellbeing, rights, truth, beauty, etc - are best secured and fostered by individuals pursuing their own self-realisation. There is no absence of an "objective" definition of [I]good[/I]. The dispute is about means, not ultimate ends. I would expect a CG "paladin" classs (I use inverted commas because the character wouldn't literally be a paladin) to reflect "bottom up" or anti-establishment conceptions of a heroic and holy figure rather than "top down" noble conceptions: a certain sort of knight errant, or warrior hermit, for instance. I don't really follow this. [I]Devotion[/I] isn't the same as [I]enslavement[/I]. A holy warrior hermit, who pursues his/her own self-realisation and supports others in doing so, could be devoted to some divine ideal or power (we can see models of or inspiriation for this possibility in real human history, although I'll avoid naming any because of board rules). If that character was to fall short of his/her ideals and devotion, that could bring sanction from the divinity in question. [/QUOTE]
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