Pathfinder 1E Pathfinder and Mass Combat

[Xyxox]

First a bit about my history with D&D...

I started playing D&D with a white box in 1977. Before I got into D&D, I was a wargamer. Once I got into D&D I ran few campaigns that did not require mass combat rules using minatures. Swords and Spells was adequate in the beginning. AD&D required Batllesystem and then in 2E I had the finest example of AD&D based mass combat rules possible in Battlesystem 2E and Battlesystem Skirmishes.

There was never an adequate set of mass combat rules for 3.xE, certainly nothing comparable to Battlesystem 2E (which won awards from wargamers).

One of my two house rule goals with Pathfinder is a set of mass combat rules as good, if not better, than the Battlesystem and Battlesystem Skirmishes rules were for 2E.

My question is, does anybody know of anybody already working on this?

 

[Alzrius]

Paizo's official mass combat rules can be found in Pathfinder #35: War of the River Kings.

 

[Xyxox]

Paizo's official mass combat rules can be found in Pathfinder #35: War of the River Kings.

Thanks. I will have to pick it up. I'm not one who goes for adventure paths, but with mass combat rules to expand upon the PDF will definitely be worth it. I'm also sure it doesn't go anywhere near as deeply as I want to.

 

[IronWolf]

You might want to check out Warpath by Cubicle 7. You can learn more about them in one of the Chronicle podcasts that [MENTION=20741]Steel_Wind[/MENTION] does where they interviewed the designer. They sounded like a nice option.

WARPATH—Rules for Mass Combat (PFRPG)

 

[TheAuldGrump]

And do not forget that there is a wealth of 3.X material to draw upon. I can recommend the Open Mass Combat System II from Mongoose Publishing's Classic Play: Book of Strongholds & Dynasties and Classic Play: Book of the Sea. (I have gotten a lot more use from Book of the Sea, but I tend towards the nautical in my games.)

I also started in D&D (beige box!) through wargaming. Maybe one or two years before you did. (Ye gods! I was young at the time!) Wooden Ships & Iron Men and Jutland were my favorites. (I have leaned towards the nautical for a while. )

However, as time passes, I seem to be using the system outlined in WotC's Heroes of Battle more often than not - possibly my favorite of the later WotC offerings for 3.X, and useful pretty much for any system, D20 based or not. It involves the heroes running around being heroic and influencing the battle, rather than being generals or third spearman, fourth rank.

The Auld Grump

 

[Cor_Malek]

That's probably more compact than what you aim for, but I figure I'll post it for others who might stumble upon this thread Mxyzplk in his story hour Reavers on the Seas of Fatehttp://www.enworld.org/forum/story-hour/266041-pathfinder-reavers-seas-fate-1.html in this postmentioned the system he's working on for quick and compact mass combat. You can also read a bit about how it played out in their game. More on this system can be found on his site here.

 

[Kvantum]

Do keep in mind that the "official" rules in Pf #35 are just a quick and dirty little system to handle a few mass combats in the plot of Kingmaker, not a major, official way you'll really want to use to do things. The expanded and upgraded system is supposed to be in Ultimate Combat, a GenCon 2011 release.

Assuming they don't have another editorial flameout and push it back since they're supposed to have the World Guide: Tian Xia (pseudo Asia) book out at GC, too.

(I'm getting just a liiiiitle tired of Paizo's editorial issues, after all the errors in Adventurer's Armory and the APG, and the six month delay of World Guide: The Inner Sea to February.)

 

[Azgulor]

There was never an adequate set of mass combat rules for 3.xE, certainly nothing comparable to Battlesystem 2E (which won awards from wargamers).

Sure there were. Fields of Blood by Eden, Cry Havoc by Malhovoc (I think), Mongoose had several I believe, and Heroes of Battle by WotC. All were superior to Battlesystem, IMO, which I used heavily in my AD&D days. However, Battlesystem never integrated the PC into things very well. All of the systems I've listed above do a better job in that regard, IMO.

For Pathfinder, you have Warpath (which I recommend) and the rules from the Kingmaker AP (haven't seen them yet).

I'd still recommend Fields of Blood & Heroes of Battle. FoB gives you a good mass combat system. It also provides kingdom-building rules but I think I prefer Kingmaker's system better. Heroes of Battle has terriffic info on structuring large-scale battles yet keeping the focus at the PC's viewpoint. I like the mass combat aspect too much to just go with HoB, but I incorporate those recommendations in every mass combat I run.

 

[Xyxox]

Okay, every time I think I need to invent something new, I find out I'm looking at a wheel and don't want to reinvent it.

Has anybody checked out Warpath yet? I'm going to sink $17.99 into the print/PDF combo today.

 

[Xyxox]

Sure there were. Fields of Blood by Eden, Cry Havoc by Malhovoc (I think), Mongoose had several I believe, and Heroes of Battle by WotC. All were superior to Battlesystem, IMO, which I used heavily in my AD&D days. However, Battlesystem never integrated the PC into things very well. All of the systems I've listed above do a better job in that regard, IMO.

For Pathfinder, you have Warpath (which I recommend) and the rules from the Kingmaker AP (haven't seen them yet).

I'd still recommend Fields of Blood & Heroes of Battle. FoB gives you a good mass combat system. It also provides kingdom-building rules but I think I prefer Kingmaker's system better. Heroes of Battle has terriffic info on structuring large-scale battles yet keeping the focus at the PC's viewpoint. I like the mass combat aspect too much to just go with HoB, but I incorporate those recommendations in every mass combat I run.

I checked out both Fields of Blood and Heroes of Battle and found both lacking severely. YMMV, but they were inadequate for me.

I am giving Warpath a shot. Since I'm getting the PDF, I can easily house rule it if needed.