Pathfinder 1E Pathfinder Character Creation: Point Buy or Roll of the Die?

[ancientvaults]

I made a comment a while back on the Paizo Pathfinder forum regarding a dwarf sorcerer (which one of my players has). There was a reply to me to the effect that it was not a wise idea because a dwarf has -2 to Charisma.

For a while I tried not to think about it, but I see this attitude as a fundamental problem (to me, at least) with how some people approach these games. The person who replied to me seemed to be implying that there was going to be an "18" in the Charisma slot naturally, but if a race was played that had a hindrance in that attribute it wasn't a smart plan.

Character creation in our games is 4d6, drop the lowest and put the number where you want to. There are no "done deals" with an 18 for anyone, and that isn't a bad thing, is it? Aren't flawed characters and overcoming their downsides fun?

I have kept away from that forum since because I see the "need to win" or "be the best" mentality is common and that isn't the way we play. But then, my players don't portray heroes, they are usually scalawags. They don't bravely kill things and steal their stuff as often as they make a tactical retreat when the situation calls for it.

 

[Xendria]

I agree whole heartedly about the fact of a flaw and playing it out, after all this is a Role Playing Game. But I stopped leaving it to chance about 3 campaigns ago when one of my players managed to have his way with probability right in front of me and get the following rolls: 13, 14, 16, 16, 18, 18. This was using the same method you are currently using. When I proceeded to ask the player to re-roll one of the eighteens, he threw a fit.

I let him play with it and all it caused was issues. First, this guy hit like a truck and took hits like one as well (18's into Str and Con as a fighter with his +2 racial into Str). Second, he was better than the rest of the party, one player had rolled no higher than a 15.

In the end I feel the point buy system is way more stable and gives the player more control while putting his limitations in his hands. Every swing, save, and skill is decided by chance in this game, why not let them control a bit more. It is also easier to DM with, easily gauging the strength of the party based on how many points you give them. I also think this answers the idea of a flaw because If a player wants (depending on how many points alloted) for every high stat they will have a low stat.

In conclusion, the guy on the forums was right, it's not particularly wise to play a dwarf sorcerer for mechanics sake, but it also isn't wise to charge into the lair of a black dragon, but I know I've done both so who really cares

 

[BlubSeabass]

I too don't like to roll for stats, because it quickly can lead to permanent unfairness in the team. With some luck, the sorcerer can get a few high ones (like the fighter of the post above me) and another one wouldn't even manage to get a +3 bonus on something.

Sure, point buy out encourages to go "7 on Cha, 18 on Str", but I really think thats the choice of the player. Some people just get a high of roling 24 damage with their greataxe on lvl 3. You can't force them into roleplay anways.

If you want to encourage the dwarven sorcerer, There is alot of fun in there too. There saves are higher, they have more HP and are proficient with dwarven waraxes. With the help of feats like Arcane strike, spells like Shield, Expeditious retreat and Magic Missile, you actually re-invented the sorcerer. Looks like a blast to play too me!

 

[pawsplay]

I really prefer rolling. I honestly have no idea how even straight 18s could be gamebreaking; it would just be somewhat annoying to me, with my group. The other thing is that it encourages playing against type. If you roll an 18, it is rare and precious, but it doesn't "cost" any more to burn it on the dwarf's charisma than it does for any other sorcerer. The dwarf just ends up with a lower Cha and a higher Con. Under point buy, you are clearly burning points to play a dwarf sorcerer. That's one aspect.

I like the idea of character creation as a sort of minigame, an imaginative undertaking. As long as it's a reasonable system, I find random ability scores to be a useful tool.

My players always want to roll. Sometimes they ask to reroll, and I give them a disappointed look and they live with it.

 

[Votan]

I think, for me, it depends on the game. With Pathfinder you have the heavy influence of ability scores on potential. I find that the system is more fragile to a poor set of rolls making a character that is less fun, especially at high levels. On average 4d6 drop one works well but the abnormally low cases can be unfun, in my experience.

But I do get the impulse to roll "in order" at times . . .

 

[TanisFrey]

I think, for me, it depends on the game. With Pathfinder you have the heavy influence of ability scores on potential. I find that the system is more fragile to a poor set of rolls making a character that is less fun, especially at high levels. On average 4d6 drop one works well but the abnormally low cases can be unfun, in my experience.

But I do get the impulse to roll "in order" at times . . .

In games when we rolled for ability scores, the GM made me total ability modifiers
for the character. If it was less that +2 overall, he made me toss that set of rolls and reroll.

 

[billd91]

I think, for me, it depends on the game. With Pathfinder you have the heavy influence of ability scores on potential. I find that the system is more fragile to a poor set of rolls making a character that is less fun, especially at high levels. On average 4d6 drop one works well but the abnormally low cases can be unfun, in my experience.

But I do get the impulse to roll "in order" at times . . .

A particularly low set of stat rolls is a pain, but I find that the system is generally more fragile with point buy than your typical rolled stats because you tend to see more systematic discrepancies between concentrated offense and stat-dumped defenses. Plus, high multiple-attribute dependent (MAD) classes balance better against classes with lower MAD with rolls than with point buy.

 

[Alaxk Knight of Galt]

For me, the type of game I'm running influences the character creation method I want to use.

If I'm playing a game with high character turn over or a sandbox style game, I'd rather use 3d6 variants.

If I'm playing the AP style game, I'd rather point buy my character.

 

[JediSoth]

I can see the merit in point-buy systems, but I just prefer to roll stats. For most of my D20 games, I have people roll 4d6, re-rolls 1s and discard the lowest. I've never noticed a huge discrepancy in power levels between characters and I don't recall any instances of getting more than one 18.

I've also found it speeds character creation; players don't spend as much time agonizing and min/maxing their stats.

Of course, the fastest character creation method I ever used was the stat array, when a few of my players complained that random generation "wasn't fair."

 

[Qwillion]

I play with point buy, but I also require one stat of 8 so that players can't minimize their weaknesses rather they have one big glaring weakness, player then often play up these flaws so it makes it even more fun.