Pathfinder OGL/3.5 RPG system from Paizo

nutluck

First Post
Nellisir said:
I'm not trying to pile on here, but I think the problem is that you haven't got enough information, not that you're a dissenting voice. Before today, the Pathfinder RPG market was 0, because there was no Pathfinder RPG. Now they've got a potential market of thousands. If the Pathfinder RPG core book gets 10% of the 3.5-playing crowd, it'll probably be the best selling 3rd-party OGL book ever.

The fact is, there's a market for "nostalgic" game editions -and- D&D variant games - Hackmaster, OSRIC, C&C, Arcana Evolved, Spycraft, Thieves' World, Black Company, Conan - all have proven that. Pathfinder could be both, AND a continuation of 3.5, an existing and popular ruleset. The 3rd-party market is already shrinking, and 4e is going to shrink it further. That's an opportunity for Paizo. Creating a "Pathfinder" license could also allow them to leverage the OGL into garnering support from other companies - Pathfinder Conan, for instance.

I was going to comment on this as well. I am not sure if their sales will be better or not. But lets say their is 100K people that buy 3e stuff or did. Lets say Paizo sold to 10% of them or 10k. If when 4e comes out and keeps 80% of the players, the other 20% most of them will likely stick with 3.x like those that didn't move on from 1e and 2e found C&C and hackmaster ect to play. So if even most of that 20% jumps on with Paizo they will have a big increase. If even half does they break even.

I am not saying they will or won't make more money. Only that they use to have a small piece of a very big pie and now they will have a huge piece of a much smaller pie. With the OGL and them keeping Pathfinder RPG OGL. If they can get some other companies to join up. Like say TrueD20 adapts or Conan D20 does, or even just all those little 3e companies out their that make splat books. If the GSL is to restrictive it gives all the other current 3e companies big and small a choice.

Plus I think things are different and not like the switch from 2e to 3e was. 2e was dieing off, other companies like White Wolf was storming the gates. 3e came out and retook things back and became the big boy on the block again. This time while some people have left 3e I think the numbers are MUCH smaller than those that had left 2e and I think those unhappy with 3e is smaller. Most of them don't have major complaints about 3e but a lot of little ones which they new game might fix.

I just wanted to point all this out. In the end i don't know if I will play Pathfinder RPG, 4e or go back to Rolemaster or something. But I will try both and see and either way i will almost for sure keep buying Paizo stuff and adopting it to which ever system I play. As long as it is good products, this move makes me like them as a company even more than I did even if I don't end up playing Pathfinder RPG.
 

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Treebore

First Post
jmucchiello said:
Well, they can't call them that. Maybe... Finder Magazine and Path Magazine.

It'd be really cool if they reached out to 3rd party pubs.

I would be all over that!! I HATE the digital initiative, I want my print!
 


JDragon

Explorer
GO PAIZO!!!!

I like many other here have been on the fence about 4E for most of the time its existence has been known.

I'm not sure yet as I have just barely scratched the Alpha Rules PDF, but this already has a much higher interest level for me that 4e has since it was announced.

I love the fact that they are going to be doing the open play test, this will really let the people that care about the game get themselves heard. (Sorry I just don't really think WotC has done that so far.)

I'll shortly be sending an email to most everyone I know that plays D&D with the news, just in case they have not seen it.

GO PAIZO!!!!

JD
 

Zinegata

First Post
While I haven't decided whether or not I'd switch 4E or Pathfinder (or stick to 3.5 :p), I must say this was a shrewd and gutsy move on Paizo's part.

I think you may have just cornered a good, strong niche for yourselves.
 

Dragonblade

Adventurer
SPoD said:
So in the space of a year, WOTC's biggest ally becomes WOTC's biggest competitor, and they literally have only themselves to blame (since they put Paizo out of the magazine business AND failed to cut them in on 4E in a timely fashion). Paizo's golem logo is particularly apt today, because Wizards has created a monster that threatens to run amok over their business.

Why do I feel like someone in Renton is going to get fired over this? Probably someone we've never heard of, but SOMEONE.

If you think that Paizo is a competitor to WotC, you're fooling yourself. The majority of Paizo's customers will come from the anti-4e minority who were never really going to 4e anyway, and the rest of their customers will come from cannibalizing customers from C&C, True20, Arcana Evolved, Conan d20, and other D&D clones.

Paizo will probably do quite alright for themselves. I expect them to dominate the d20 OGL market, although Crafty Games upcoming Fantasy Craft may have something to say about that.

But seriously impacting WotC's business? I don't think so. Thats like saying a high school football team can play in the NFL. WotC has the name, the marketing power, and the brand on their side. Plus I have played 4e and I know it rocks. The problem with Pathfinder is I have played 3.5 and I know it doesn't.
 

drjones

Explorer
I'm wondering about the open playtesting. In particular I am wondering how thankless the job of being the guy who decides on the rules when a peek at many of the conversations on this and paizos boards shows that there is a very loud argumentative group of true fans who all seem to want different things from the game.

I guess the idea of a democracy of Comic Book Guys seems like it might come up with a better game than one guy working towards a deadline but would you really want to be the one moderating that discussion? And then to have to take the hate when you go with Camp A instead of Camp B on gnome ear size or whatever.
 

I just want to add my voice to the loud cheering going on here for Paizo. I think this is great news, and a shrewd business move. I love the idea of an open playtest (and will post my ideas and comments in the appropriate Paizo boards soon enough), but the execution may be a headache (EDIT: As was eloquently pointed out by the above post). We'll see.

Thanks for giving us the choice, Paizo! You are my heroes!
 

jdrakeh

Front Range Warlock
drjones said:
I'm wondering about the open playtesting. In particular I am wondering how thankless the job of being the guy who decides on the rules when a peek at many of the conversations on this and paizos boards shows that there is a very loud argumentative group of true fans who all seem to want different things from the game.

I guess the idea of a democracy of Comic Book Guys seems like it might come up with a better game than one guy working towards a deadline but would you really want to be the one moderating that discussion? And then to have to take the hate when you go with Camp A instead of Camp B on gnome ear size or whatever.

Playtesting isn't quite what many fans think it is. It's testing, not free reign to get What You Like slotted into a work already in progress. As open software tests are largely about reporting bugs in already existant processes, so are RPG tets more about identifying non-functional rules than rules that the tester doesn't personally like.

As somebody who has screened playtest forms, I can confirm that many "Gut all of this and replace it with my personal houserules!" reports go right in the trash. Not all such reports, mind you, but many. By the time a playtest is started, a system is off the drawing board -- the focus is on refining what already exists, not going back to square one.

Going back to square one can happen, though there has to be an overwhelming amount of nearly identical feedback received in order to get anything back on the drawing board after it has moved past that stage of design.

YMMV, of course.
 

Knightfall

World of Kulan DM
To the people at Paizo: you are my heroes!

This totally makes my day. I'm not eager to switch to 4th Edition, and I'm very disappointed with the direction the game is taking. The fluff makes me very unhappy, and the rules seem to cater to a style of gaming I'm not interested in.

The Pathfinder RPG sounds like my type of game, and who knows, I might even convert World of Kulan to be a Pathfinder world.

Cheers!

KF72
 

Aris Dragonborn

First Post
blargney the second said:
Next things I'd love to see on the chopping block: 2 skill points per level and cross-class skills. Honestly, they're just fiddly and don't increase the fun.
-blarg

I'm with you there.

From a quick look-see, it seems that they have done away with skill points entirely; it's now closer to SAGA, with each class getting a set number of skills at 1st level. For example:

Fighter: 2 + Intelligence Modifier = number of skills at first level.

At every even-numbered level after that, you gain 1 additional skill choice.

The mechanic for skill checks looks like this:

Untrained Skill: 1d20 + ability modifier + racial modifier
Trained Skill: 1d20 + character level + 3 + ability modifier + racial modifier
Trained Cross-Class Skill: 1d20 + 1/2(character level +3) + ability modifier + racial modifier

So, cross-class skills are still in there, but I love this mechanic. If I feel the need to add skills to NPC's/henchmen/villains, this will make it easier for me to stat them up, rather than obsessing over skill points and ranks.
 


Pinotage

Explorer
Yes! Yes! And Yes! Fantastic news. Paizo rocks! I was hoping that somebody would do something like this, and hoping that Paizo would stick with 3.5e, and it looks like I'm getting the best of both worlds! Wooot! :D

The Alpha release looks great, it uses the OGL, it has a playtest base of thousands - this is hands down going to be great!

Thanks Paizo!

Pinotage
 

Aris Dragonborn said:
I'm with you there.

From a quick look-see, it seems that they have done away with skill points entirely; it's now closer to SAGA, with each class getting a set number of skills at 1st level. For example:



At every even-numbered level after that, you gain 1 additional skill choice.

The mechanic for skill checks looks like this:



So, cross-class skills are still in there, but I love this mechanic. If I feel the need to add skills to NPC's/henchmen/villains, this will make it easier for me to stat them up, rather than obsessing over skill points and ranks.
How will it avoid Rogue-Dipping for anyone but Spellcasters?
 

Flynn

First Post
The last two pages of the playtest document indicate that another Alpha release is coming, to cover more material, and a 3rd one will follow that:

Upcoming Releases
In the coming weeks, we will post Alpha release 2 of
the Pathfinder RPG. Here’s a small taste of what you can
expect to see:
4 PC Classes: Barbarian, Druid, Paladin, and Sorcerer
(Bard, Monk, and Ranger will be in Release 3). You can
expect revised rules for barbarian rage and druid wild
shape, alternate rules for a paladin’s mount, and a host
of bloodlines for sorcerers.
Dozens of Spells: From confusion to polymorph to web,
a wide variety of spells will receive updates.
Curses, Diseases, and Poisons: All part of one unified,
simple-to-use system. Now these threats will pose
a challenge to characters of any level.
Nonplayer Characters: Simple rules for
designing NPCs on the fly. This section will
also include simple short-cuts for assigning
magic items and adjudicating wealth totals.
Magic Items: Initial rules and revisions
designed to add variety to a player’s choice of gear.
Monsters: A complete guide to creating and
converting monsters for the Pathfinder RPG.

I think this will be interesting, but truth be told, while I might pick Pathfinder up should I end up in a Pathfinder game, I won't be running it unless they make it easier for me to GM. Right now, creating higher level NPCs and monsters is simply painful. Also, it looks like combat is going to be just as long and nasty as it has always been (for backwards compatibility). Having run 400+ sessions of D20 over the last seven and a half years, I'm looking for something easier to run, for me as the GM. I'll keep looking at Pathfinder, but right now, I don't see me investing deeply into the system, aside from a core rulebook at some point.

Still, I think it's a brilliant and logical move on the part of Paizo, and I'm interested enough from a designer perspective to watch the evolution of Pathfinder over the duration of the playtest. I think the process and the result will be very telling, and indicative of how future playtesting may be handled by other companies. As Mongoose has been open playtesting Traveller OGL for the last five months or so, it seems that Paizo's recent announcement is establishing this process as a trend in the current gaming market. I hope that trend grows.

With Regards,
Flynn
 



amethal

Adventurer
Unbelievable.

I am incredibly excited about this.

Once I get paid for this month I'll be taking out a Pathfinder Chronicles subscription to go with my Pathfinder one.
 

Klaus

First Post
jmucchiello said:
Well, they can't call them that. Maybe... Finder Magazine and Path Magazine.

It'd be really cool if they reached out to 3rd party pubs.
Well, seeing that a golem is the symbol of Paizo, I'd call the magazines "The Golem" and "The Delve", or something to that effect.
 

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