Pathfinder Online Layoffs; Ryan Dancey Leaves Company

Paizo CEO Lisa Stevens has announced that Goblinworks has had to lay off nearly the entire staff of Pathfinder Online. "We knew we needed a certain amount of money to finish to build the game, and we came really damn close, but we just couldn’t find the last bit of funding that we needed. […] Last Friday, we had to lay off most of the staff. […] I couldn’t pay them anymore. We gave them lots of warning, so they all knew this was coming." Not only that, apparently Ryan Dancey left the company two weeks ago! That leaves three employees (who are continuing work on the game), who are being moved to the Paizo offices; the Goblinworks offices are being closed. The company is seeking $1-$2 million from other investors to finish the game.

Pathfinder Online was being produced by Goblinworks, a new company spearheaded by Ryan Dancey and Lisa Stevens, amongst others. It has had two successful Kickstarters already - one for a million dollars, and the other for a $300K technology demo.

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Here's the full announcement from Lisa Stevens:

To the Pathfinder Online Community

From the beginning of the three year journey to create Pathfinder Online, the one constant has been the support of our community and for this I thank you. We have had ups and downs including heated debates on design, implementation and overall gameplay. We have literally battled together (or against each other) and I know you enjoy playing the game as much as I do. I also know that the community comes together during tough times, and it is probably no surprise that we are currently in a tough spot right now. There are a number of things that have occurred in the past two weeks that you need to be brought up to date on.

As we have been on this journey to create Pathfinder Online with you for over three years now, we have striven to be as transparent as possible with you. We just shared the following message with the community during our weekly Keepside Chat. In full transparency, here is a quick run down of the state of our game:

EE10.2 is on ZOG for final testing and should roll out to live on Thursday or Friday morning.

EE11 is targeted for the end of September

Ryan Dancey has had to resign from the company for personal reasons (Lisa Stevens will be acting CEO)

Finances are tight at Goblinworks, which has resulted in the layoff of the majority of Goblinworks staff

CTO Mark Kalmes, Art Director Mike Hines, and Designer Bob Settles continue to push the game forward (your monthly subscriptions are what keep these three employed and the server up)

Goblinworks is in talks with multiple game publishers to take the game on and bring it to Open Enrollment

I know that is a lot to take in, so I will share what details we can below:

Game status (EE10.2 and EE11)

We are in final testing before pushing EE10.2 to the live server with its fully revamped and improved new player experience, buy orders for the auction house as well as auction sales histories, settlement chat, and the new crystal ogres monthly event, as well as turning the previous event (The Wrath of Nhur Athemon and its Shadow counterpart) into an ongoing escalation, and making a bunch of bug fixes and improvements. The team has been working hard on this and on EE11 for most of July and August. EE11 is done in design, almost entirely done in art, and just needs a bit more programming to get it to the point where we can test. It will take settlement activities to the next level by allowing you to customize and build your settlements the way you want to. Building a settlement will be a large group task, with lots of raw materials to gather and refine before buildings can be erected. We will also have the dark elves monthly event ready, providing more PVE content for those who are focused on that aspect of the game. The core team has the goal of shipping EE11 by the end of September, and we'll keep you updated on our progress.

Ryan Dancey

Ryan Dancey needed to resign from the company for personal reasons. We were very sad that he needed to leave us, but supported his decision because it is in the best interests of Ryan’s life outside Goblinworks. In Ryan’s absence, the board of directors has appointed me Acting CEO.

Finances

We have always known that we would need a certain amount of money to make Pathfinder Online a reality. Some delays in getting the game to market coupled with some anticipated funding falling through have left us about 75% short of the money we need to finish the game and bring it to Open Enrollment. We knew that we could cut our burn rate (the rate at which expenses burn your cash reserves) by having folks participate in Early Enrollment and that was always the plan, though we never thought that the Early Enrollment subscribers could carry the company to Open Enrollment. We knew we needed that full investment amount to do that. We had numerous times this year where the full funding was dangling in front of us only to be snatched away at the last moment. Very frustrating, but we moved forward and kept looking for somebody to come through with the money we needed to see the game through.

Due to the commitment that you have made to the game, your current subscriptions are able to keep the core team employed and the servers live. We will continue to move the game forward with that team and keep the servers live as long as the continued financial support from the community is there. But that means we need you, the Pathfinder Online Community, to continue to support us with your monthly subscription fees. They are very literally what is keeping the servers paid for, and keeping our core team employed, working on EE11, and talking with various potential partners about purchasing the game so they can finish it. If you wish to see the game through to its finish, we need you to support it financially for the next few months, and if you know people that want to support it, encourage them to subscribe now. (During this period, we will offer only month-to-month subscriptions.)

On August 28, we had to lay off the majority of the Goblinworks staff. Continuing to push the game forward are CTO Mark Kalmes, Art Director Mike Hines, and Designer Bob Settles. We have been keeping the staff abreast of our efforts to find funding for Pathfinder Online and that we would likely have to lay them off on the 28th. We felt it was super important to give our employees warning so they could plan their lives accordingly. Their efforts to line up new jobs led to some of the rumors about layoffs. So why didn’t we announce this earlier? Because there was and still remains a chance for Pathfinder Online to get its funding and continue forward, so it wasn’t a foregone conclusion that we would have to lay the staff off until Friday, the 28th.

Future

For the past few weeks, we have been shopping Pathfinder Online to a number of other game publishers, looking for a good fit to take the game on and fund it over the finish line. There have been quite a few companies coming out of the woodwork to discuss this with us and we are in ongoing talks with a number of them about the possibilities. More companies enter the fray every day. These kinds of things take some time, though we are motivated to see them through as quickly as we can. At any moment, one of these publishers could agree to buy the game and we could quickly ramp up to full tilt again. Due to confidentiality, we can’t provide information on these negotiations. Rest assured that you will be the first people we tell when there is news we can share.

This isn’t a super rosy picture, but we aren’t dead yet! The Goblinworks team and the Pathfinder Online community have been underdogs for pretty much the entire project’s history. But we have persevered and survived. Sometimes it is darkest right before the dawn. When I was at White Wolf, we were close to having our electricity and phones shut off in the month before Vampire: The Masquerade released and became a huge hit. At Wizards of the Coast, we had to lay off the entire staff for 9 months before Magic: The Gathering launched and became one of the most successful games in history. You have my word that I will work relentlessly to find the right partner to take Pathfinder Online through to the finish line. The team has brought the ball down the field to the red zone, and now we just need somebody to punch it over the goal line.

I will be hosting another Keepside Chat on Wednesday, September 8th at its normal time of 5pm PST. You can join the chat live by going to:

Golarion.mumble.com

Port 3093

The ability for us to make Pathfinder Online has always been entirely dependent upon you, the Pathfinder Online Community and the support you have given us. I would like to thank the Pathfinder Online community for your fierce dedication, support, feedback, and drive to see this game made well. The only reason to make Pathfinder Online is you, our customer. I hope you will stay with us over the next few months as we search for that proper partner to finish the game. It is your support, literally, that will allow this to happen. Without you, there is no Pathfinder Online.

You have my eternal gratitude,

Lisa Stevens
Acting CEO
Goblinworks Inc.





Original post:

Goblinworks has laid off all but three of the Pathfinder Online staff.

 

[Zardnaar]

Ryan Dancey claimed, loudly, that tabletop RPGs and D&D in particular were in a death spiral and doomed. He then also claimed he was going to revolutionize MMO gaming, though he had not earned respect in that field in any way.

I have sympathy for the people just laid off. I have sympathy for Paizo. I have sympathy for the fans.

I find it hard to have sympathy for Ryan Dancey right now, though I am trying. At heart he's a gamer, like me, so I very much want to sympathize with the fact he's now out of a job as well and one of his dreams just ended. But he was dishing out some snark during this whole time himself, and there was a lot of hubris involved with both the "TTRPG are dead" and "I will revolutionize MMOs" comments. When a guy does that, it's hard to generate the sympathy. But...I am trying.

I'm not heh. I thought they were in trouble when they had a million dollar KS. Looks good on paper but games cost around 4 million to design in the PS2 days. At best they would have made something like pillars of eternity which by most accounts is good. For that type of money you are looking at an indie game not a 3D MMO.

Shenmue3 raised 6 million by comparison and they have Japanese backers as well. The average backer chipped in close to $100 each. THats an update of a game last seen on the first Xbox though and if they have some other backers they may not be to far short of the 20 million is costs to design a decent game these days. GTA5 cost 200 million.

 

[Dire Bare]

Lighten up guys . . .

Man, poor Dancey isn't exactly batting 1.000, is he

Wha?

d20 licence leads to d20 bust

I think you are forgetting that the d20 bust came after the d20 boom, which launched the careers of many still successful game designers, and launched a number of still successful companies, and gave us a ton of very high quality game products, game lines, including Pathfinder.

The d20 License/OGL was a HUGE success! Not a sustainable one, but a grand success none-the-less.

D&D OGL leads to Paizo taking over market share

That never really happened. Paizo only outsold D&D when WotC wasn't producing D&D products, and that had nothing to do with Dancey or the d20 License he championed.

CCP's WoD MMO crashes and burns . . . now Pathfinder Online ...

Software and videogame projects fail all the time, way more than they succeed. It's a tough business. With the online WoD and Pathfinder games, how much of that was Dancey's "fault", if blame even needs to be assigned at all, much less to a single person who is but a part of a larger team.

I find it hard to have sympathy for Ryan Dancey right now, though I am trying. At heart he's a gamer, like me, so I very much want to sympathize with the fact he's now out of a job as well and one of his dreams just ended. But he was dishing out some snark during this whole time himself, and there was a lot of hubris involved with both the "TTRPG are dead" and "I will revolutionize MMOs" comments. When a guy does that, it's hard to generate the sympathy. But...I am trying.

Dancey wasn't among the layoffs. Dancey left Goblinworks prior due to personal concerns . . . and the subtext was that something not fun is going on in Dancey's personal life. Exactly what is none of our business, but I very much have sympathy for the man and whatever it is that he's going through.

Dancey has most certainly come across as somewhat arrogant (or, perhaps, overly proud?) in the past, but that's hardly a cardinal sin to be super-hyped about the projects you champion and believe in. Dancey is cool people, and for some reason gets a lot of unfair hate (normal in this fandom, I suppose), but he certainly isn't perfect or always right. Just because he ended up being wrong in this case doesn't lessen my sympathy for him and the other team members at Goblinworks who are out of a job and a creative project that won't see the light of day.

I wasn't impressed with anything regarding Pathfinder Online, and I'm not sad nor surprised it's vaporware, other than the folks involved who lost out, of course.

EDIT: Realized my wording wasn't the best . . . Mistwell, I'm not accusing you of laying down the hate on poor ol' Dancey, just that he is often the target of unfair internet rage. Although I do think you are being a bit unfair . . .

 

[dd.stevenson]

Ryan Dancey claimed, loudly, that tabletop RPGs and D&D in particular were in a death spiral and doomed.

Yeah, I ain't gonna miss that aspect of Dancey's marketing pitch.

 

[Agamon]

I think you are forgetting that the d20 bust came after the d20 boom, which launched the careers of many still successful game designers, and launched a number of still successful companies, and gave us a ton of very high quality game products, game lines, including Pathfinder.

The d20 License/OGL was a HUGE success! Not a sustainable one, but a grand success none-the-less.

Not forgetting that at all, but that wasn't my point. The d20 license ended up not so good for WotC, the company he worked for. When they created it, it was meant for adventure creation. When the d20 companies started making rules accessories, WotC made 3.5, which made everything with a d20 label on it virtually unsalable. That actually was bad for everyone, though a few of the better companies were able to weather the storm.

That never really happened. Paizo only outsold D&D when WotC wasn't producing D&D products, and that had nothing to do with Dancey or the d20 License he championed.

The OGL begat Pathfinder. Again, I'm not saying that's a bad thing itself, but it wasn't a good thing for WotC.

Software and videogame projects fail all the time, way more than they succeed. It's a tough business. With the online WoD and Pathfinder games, how much of that was Dancey's "fault", if blame even needs to be assigned at all, much less to a single person who is but a part of a larger team.

"Fault" is a strong word, involvement is all I'm saying. I'm not laying blame, just noting that it hasn't all been wins. L5R also wasn't his "fault", but he certainly had a hand in it's creation.

Not raging or ripping, just pointing out something I thought interesting.

 

[billd91]

Not forgetting that at all, but that wasn't my point. The d20 license ended up not so good for WotC, the company he worked for. When they created it, it was meant for adventure creation. When the d20 companies started making rules accessories, WotC made 3.5, which made everything with a d20 label on it virtually unsalable. That actually was bad for everyone, though a few of the better companies were able to weather the storm.



The OGL begat Pathfinder. Again, I'm not saying that's a bad thing itself, but it wasn't a good thing for WotC.

Neither of these negative outcomes (for WotC) were inevitable. Had they not trotted 3.5 out early, d20 licensees and anyone with 3.0 compatible products may have been in better shape for a longer time, fewer 3rd parties would have felt burned. Had WotC not bungled the licensing for 4e, Pathfinder might never have existed.

 

[rknop]

(Aside: it's rather ridiculous that this form replaces a very common term for "the excrement of a bull" with a series of smilies. Too much overeager puritanism in this country.)

Dancey wasn't among the layoffs. Dancey left Goblinworks prior due to personal concerns . . . and the subtext was that something not fun is going on in Dancey's personal life.

While this is entirely possible, I have to admit that I seriously doubt this. The CEOs and companies of the world have cried Wolf way, way, way, way too many times for any of us to believe this any more. Every time somebody high-up in a company leaves, we're told that it's so they can "spend more time with their family", because they "have personal issues they want to focus on", or because "they want to pursue other interests and opportunities." But, we have to remember Jon Stewert's "Daily Show" fairwell speech: Bulls**t is everywhere. And these are all bulls**t, to the point that those phrases are all code for the real reason the employee was fired, which is either (1) there were political maneuverings and the employee lost, (2) the employee was flat-out incompetent, but because we worship higher-level manager types in this country we won't say that, or (3) the company was in serious trouble and failing, changes needed to be made, but we don't want to admit that.

Sadly, sometimes its true. For instance, if you remember Babylon 5, the lead actor (Michael O'Hare) left the show after the first season. JM Straczynski, the show's executive producer, at the time said that it was a mutual decision, and that was because he wanted to take the story in other directions. All of us smelled the BS in that, and because many people thought that O'Hare's acting was terrible (I didn't, but I'm in a minority on that), they thought it was obvious that he was sacked because his acting was bad. A couple of decades later, after O'Hare had died, Straczynski told the truth (with O'Hare's blessing for a posthumous reveal). O'Hare had been suffering with a debilitating illness-- but it was a mental illness, which tends to have more public stigma in our society. He simply couldn't contlnue with the show. But, also, he didn't want it announced that he had a serious mental illness. So, Straczynski did the most gracious thing he could.

It's sad, though, because even though Straczynski was obscuring the whole truth, it really was gracious, it wasn't classic bulls**t. But, because bulls**t is everywhere, nobody believed it. Corporate america has cried wolf too often.

And, so, I don't believe this. To me, it's way too much of a coincidence that Dancy leaves mere weeks before PFO lays off basically its entire staff. Maybe, yes, maybe it's possible Dancy has bad stuff going on in his personal life. It's far more likely that it had become increasingly obvious that the company was going in a direction that was not going to succeed, and that heads at the top needed to roll. Almost certainly, the "personal reasons for leaving" is just the routine bulls**t we're always told.

Sometimes the PR that companies put out is true. But it's tremendously naive to believe it ever unless you have independent confirmation, because at least 95% of the time it's complete BS.

(This goes for internal communications too; if you're inside a company, don't believe the rah-rah or other BS that your managers tell you. Likewise the crap your administration tells you if you're in academia. Sometimes it's true, but most of the time it's BS. In the worse cases, those spreading it don't even realize it's BS. Jon Stewart was extremely right when he declared that bulls**t is everywhere.)

 

[Mistwell]

Dancey wasn't among the layoffs. Dancey left Goblinworks prior due to personal concerns . . .

Said every politician bailing on a disaster...ever. Maybe it's pure incredible coincidence that he leaves for personal reasons a mere 2 weeks before the entire company runs out of money and implodes...but all you have to do is ask yourself this: but-for his personal issues, would he still have a job today at the company? Answer is no - they don't have the funds for his salary with or without the personal issues. He'd have to leave today if he hadn't left two weeks ago, so either way it seems a moot point.

and the subtext was that something not fun is going on in Dancey's personal life. Exactly what is none of our business, but I very much have sympathy for the man and whatever it is that he's going through.

Maybe. I have seen no subtext. Have you seen anything the rest of us have not seen? It was a few words, and it just said personal issues...can't find subtext there. If there is something really bad going on, then I will have sympathy for him.

Dancey has most certainly come across as somewhat arrogant (or, perhaps, overly proud?) in the past, but that's hardly a cardinal sin to be super-hyped about the projects you champion and believe in.

Which is why I didn't say or imply it was a cardinal sin - just harder to generate sympathy for him. The two things he said were not cool. You say those things, and when your company implodes on you it becomes harder to be sympathetic - that was a clear risk of him saying those two things, and he accepted that risk when he did that. Not the same as me saying he's an overall bad person.

Dancey is cool people, and for some reason gets a lot of unfair hate (normal in this fandom, I suppose), but he certainly isn't perfect or always right. Just because he ended up being wrong in this case doesn't lessen my sympathy for him and the other team members at Goblinworks who are out of a job and a creative project that won't see the light of day.

I don't hate him, and I don't appreciate you implying that's what I said when replying to me. I don't think anything I said is undeserved. My difficulty having sympathy for him is directly related to what he said, not some undeserved unrelated things.

EDIT: Realized my wording wasn't the best . . . Mistwell, I'm not accusing you of laying down the hate on poor ol' Dancey, just that he is often the target of unfair internet rage. Although I do think you are being a bit unfair . . .

I am trying to be fair to him - I am just not sure he deserves it in this context. To me, it doesn't seem like he earned the karma points over this one. But maybe you're right. Certainly if something terrible has happened to him on a personal level then I will have sympathy. He doesn't deserve anything bad happening to him or his family on a personal level.

 

[TroyBentonGames]

Sad to hear about everyone that lost gainful employment by this. Good luck to everyone lading back on their feet!

 

[TrickyUK]

Really bad news about the lay offs.

However, I also have to say that I tried this game. I can't recall ever deciding to not like a game so fast, and I was really hoping for something different and good.

I find it hard for anyone to honestly think that the game really is any good. If you play any other game out now, even betas, you can see what the current standards are and this game just doesn't reach them. Sorry.

 

[EthanSental]

Really bad news about the lay offs.

However, I also have to say that I tried this game. I can't recall ever deciding to not like a game so fast, and I was really hoping for something different and good.

I find it hard for anyone to honestly think that the game really is any good. If you play any other game out now, even betas, you can see what the current standards are and this game just doesn't reach them. Sorry.

Which is a reoccurring statement and probably why, as I mentioned earlier, they couldn't find any financial backers after they saw the state of the game.