Pathfinder 1E Pathfinder Online MMORPG Announced

[Steel_Wind]

Well, Mark Kalmes has been around a bit. He was at NCSoft, Cryptic and he met Dancey at CCP.

I would point out that WoD is still stuck in development hell, nothwithstanding the fact that it was being worked on by an existing MMO company with experience should tell you something. These things are NOT easy to do well. (Mind you, Iceland has had more than its own share of economic problems since 2008, but be that as it may...)

CCP has clearly dropped the ball on WoD for reasons that none of us really know. Dancey and Kalmes each have their own view on why that happened. Hopefully, they can avoid those issues with PF:O, but that should be a grim reminder to everyone that these things can go off the rails despite the best of intentions.

Pathfinder has a niche enough appeal that it provides an MMO with an important bit of IP to build upon and draws upon and creates expectations among a core group of users. It's not enough to be WoW or SW:ToR in terms of appeal -- but the kinds of people it may appeal to ARE large enough to perhaps form a core group of players. I'm guessing that they are aiming for a smaller MMO community a la EVE Online. The 30,000 feet overview of WoW+Eve in terms of endgame seems to strongly suggest this and that has kept a small game like EVE profitable for a long time.

There's nothing wrong to shoot for that model of success. It is achievable and it is profitable. If it ends up being bigger -- so much the better. If not? You hopefully make some money (or at least, didn't lose too much), had fun and broadened the exposure of a LOT of people to your core IP. Nothing wrong with that in terms or brand enhancement.

On the plus side, I respect the business sense of Lisa and Vic, and the ability to develop characters and settings that resonate with gamers is top notch at Paizo. They don't have to take a back seat to anybody in that regard -- in Computer Game development or out of it.

That's not small and it really does count. So that's all good.

That said (and I know a little more than most people on this score), computer game development is in most respects an entirely different beast and draws upon entirely different skillsets. It looks similar, sure, but for the most part, that similarity can be a very beguiling heresy.

Still, programming and design talent can be hired. If you got enough money and enough cachet to make a few believers out of a core team of devs -- that can be enough.

But what a game like this needs most is time and money. And you don't get the former without oodles of the latter.

Given that there is an investors link on Goblin Works webpage? Out of everything I've seen -- that's what troubles me the most. If their money isn't solid and their pockets deep, this thing's chances of getting off the ground successfully are significantly reduced.

I'm not sure that they have enough money without having to commit more of their fortune than is wise. As risky as these things are, I would hate for Lisa and Vic to be put in a position where they need to bet the farm on this.

That said, they are both grownups and know what they are doing when it comes to business so.... break a leg.

I do sincerely hope that they enjoy this experience and wish them every possible success.

As for the rest? We'll see.

 

[MichaelSomething]

I want to speculate too! Chances are it'll turn out like DDO!

 

[Stalker0]

I like Paizo, and they have made some really quality work....but this is a whole different beast.

MMOs are crazy expensive to make, and the initial gap between success and epic failure is razor thin. Further, they don't have an IP that is going to be an initial draw.

WOW had Blizzard as the makers, and Blizzard is highly respected in the video game world. KOTR has Star Wars...which gives it huge draw right there. Paizo has neither going for it.

Good luck on the project, but I think saying I'm skeptical about its success is being kind.

 

[Celtavian]

re

If they don't screw up like D&D and make an entirely different world with none of the stuff we like, they might do very well.

If they do the following:

1. Stick to the classes and races we use and love.

2. Use their own material for world and quest design. For example, make Rise of the Runelords a quest line and the end boss a raid boss or at least a dungeon boss. Imagine if all the dungeons and quests were built around doing an adventure path. That would blow the doors off most other games.

I would love starting off as a first level newbie. Starting in Sandpoint, doing all the quest adventures there, and then slowly moving on from place to place working my way up doing the adventures.

And it would have massive replay value because I could start a new adventure and go do the Legacy of Fire quest line and the Carrion Crown quest line. Their adventure paths as MMO quest lines would absolutely blow my mind.

Actually being able to see Stone Giants raiding Sandpoint as a cut scene and then hunting them in the area. Then tracking them back to their lair.

This is where D&D went wrong not including their great adventures like Temple of Elemental Evil or Against the Giants as a quest line and adventure in the MMORPG. Could you imagine if D&D had been smart and turned either module into an instance or series of instances?

D&D had all this great source material that people are salivating to see brought to life in a virtual world and they utterly fail to use any of it in the MMORPG. If Pathfinder follows the same route of just licensing the system and name for an MMORPG, it will fail.

But Pathfinder goes fully into this looking to make a mark in the MMORPG world and bring their award winning creative Adventure Paths into the game, I think they'll give any game out there a run for their money. Even a guy coming over from WoW would love to have a quest line that was like an Adventure Path starting at first level in Sandpoint and working all the way up to max level after traveling deep into the mountains to fight some ancient evil guy. That would be awesome. Blow any quests I've seen in any game away by far.

I haven't seen any game yet have the kind of quality adventure material Pathfinder has to base quest lines on. That is what would attract me.

If they make some no mame Pathfinder MMORPG with nothing particularly standout, it will end up being another of the 10 or 20 that end up failing due to an inabilty to stand out. The best way for a Pathfinder RPG to stand out is the quest material built around their Adventure Paths. I think that would really make for an exciting game.

 

[wedgeski]

There are very few actual facts out there about the game, but initially I was thinking it could only really exist as some kind of mid-tier Facebook app or similar, which would mean the "MMO" moniker was a bit sly. However, on the FAQ it says the game is PC only, which doesn't make any sense if it's browser-hosted. So we have an actual standalone MMO entering the PC space against various other incumbent giants, in the form of a fantasy RPG with nothing but the name "Pathfinder" behind it. And it's also calling itself "next-gen".

IMO the *only* way this can be profitable is for it to be a low-budget affair aimed squarely at the core existing Pathfinder crowd, whose fanaticism I'm sure Goblinworks are assuming they can leverage into a decent subscription base. Outside of that market it's just another fantasy MMO with no popular license to drive it.

 

[S'mon]

Sounds very ambitious. They will need to prioritise gameplay over fancy graphics & SFX I think.

It's certainly something I will try if there is a free trial. I'm very averse to monthly subscriptions though.

 

[Bluenose]

There's an opinion that Paizo are really strong at story/adventure creation and excellent art. This does not seem as if it plays to those strengths, where a single-player cRPG might. They're diving into fantasy MMO territory in a location where there are already several not-terribly-successful games, They have an IP that is going to get puzzled looks from most cRPG players. They have an existing fan base some of whom are going to be displeased that they aren't getting a faithful conversion of the existing t-t rules. This might not suggest great future success.

 

[Walking Dad]

Shouldn't this thread be here:

Media Lounge & Miscellaneous Geek Stuff

???

 

[Jhaelen]

If this announcement doesn't herald the end of the world, then what does?

They can't. Twenty or even 30 levels is far too few when people can (and will) play 24/7 for weeks at a time. They need to create enough content for those guys at the same time as providing a sense of accomplishment for the guy who is also paying his $15/month (or whatever) and can only play two hours on a Saturday afternoon.

Not necessarily. There's an alternative: use the Guild Wars model. It was limited to 20 levels from the start (and you could even start at level 20 if you wanted) and they sticked to it. They also didn't use a subscription model - all you had to pay for were the different campaigns.

Judging by Paizo's description what they're trying to do is not really similar to WoW. Note that they're comparing it with a 'theme-park'.

There's an opinion that Paizo are really strong at story/adventure creation and excellent art. This does not seem as if it plays to those strengths, where a single-player cRPG might.

That mirrors my thoughts. Their description over at the Goblinworks site reads almost like this is going to be an economic simulation game or maybe a real-time strategy game rather than a typical MMO.

No matter what, it will in no way resemble a table-top rpg because that would conflict with the MMO idea: Table-top RPGs revolve around individuals and very small groups. In an MMO you're just one among many (hundreds or even thousands).

I wish Paizo good luck - they'll need it!

 

[drowdude]

Certainly interesting. Although, considering they are still looking for investors, I wouldn't get too excited. Even if they do get the game off the ground, its not going to even be close to launching for several years.

A bit disappointing that they are avoiding making use of the actual Pathfinder ruleset. I understand the reasoning I suppose. But hopefully, a middle-ground is found that ends with the actual game mechanics being recognizably PF inspired.