Pathfinder 1E Pathfinder RPG teases with new barbarian class

[WhatGravitas]

Somewhat, I hate myself writing and commenting on Pathfinder. I love everything basically everything I heard so far on 4E, and simply can't believe that Pathfinder will be able to compare to 4E in playability.

Well, then don't try to compare it to 4E. I think your (and my) 4E fanboyism makes it hard, due to the reason why Pathfinder emerged - but just stop thinking of it as D&D, compare it to something else instead, like AE.

Which is also my main beef with Pathfinder - they're moving away from backwards compatibility to an extent that I probably just go AE or Iron Heroes, if 4E doesn't pan out for me - because the 3.5 compatibility soon reaches the same point. Clear case of overdesign.

Cheers, LT.

 

[Epic Meepo]

I have to disagree with many of the above posts: based on my experiences with the barbarian, this hardly appears to be a case of over-design. The barbarian is a boring, one-trick pony. Even the drab paladin class gets a few points of lay on hands and a smattering of spells, and the fighter is allowed to customize by picking bonus feats.

Don't get me wrong, a barbarian with lots of rage-related feats can be fun. But why should you have to blow all of your feats just to keep your core ability from getting stale? The baseline rage mechanic should be interesting and versatile from the start, not just a building block that gets fun only after tacking on a whole bunch of other stuff.

I'm all for replacing a vanilla rage mechanic with something more exciting. Especially if it spreads the ability out over several levels instead of front-loading one use, then getting stingy on higher levels. In my experience, the 3.5 barbarian is little more than the class everyone dips into for a level or two to get 12+Con starting hit points, fast movement, rage 1/day, a respectable smattering of skill points, and uncanny dodge on 2nd level. (YMMV.)

 

[Hunter In Darkness]

I'm all for replacing a vanilla rage mechanic with something more exciting. Especially if it spreads the ability out over several levels instead of front-loading one use, then getting stingy on higher levels. In my experience, the 3.5 barbarian is little more than the class everyone dips into for a level or two to get 12+Con starting hit points, fast movement, rage 1/day, a respectable smattering of skill points, and uncanny dodge on 2nd level. (YMMV.)

Your right.To make an affective barbarian take 2 level then go fighter and take all the rage feats. you'll out barbarian a barbarian and still have feats.The changes look to try and make it a class you want to spend 20 levels in .Oh and you should never have to spend the few feats you have to improve your core class feature to make it useful. The one a day junk is just that junk its a bad mechanic and always was it should have been a check or something .A pool will give a player more control over there pc and more options .Kinda funny alot of the people bashing the pool ideal are the same ones who bashed the skill's for lack of options and cookie cutter ness.

 

[SSquirrel]

See I don't even mind if they make the classes a bit more involved and interesting, like I felt that AE classes were. AE tho was a slightly higher power level, as given by the different XP chart and saying when you blended w/core to allow core classes an extra feat as well and to keep the magic systems separate. I question the changes that have been made to progression and XP gained (altho they say it works out the same as the current core XP chart) and wonder exactly how backwards compatible things work out to be. I hope it ends up very compatible and successful for them, but I would rather see other aspects of teh game overhauled than the Barbarian.

 

[Hunter In Darkness]

Well I have used there overhauled ECL system and I love it and even in early stages it mor balanced the the 3.5 one. And I like the xp charts if you use the new xp tables use the new ECL and XP chats. If you use 3.5 xp tables then use thous charts.Anyhow back to the thread the point there making is core classes are dip classes anymore and none should be a dip only class no pathfinder change is huge dont wanna use the pool well when you see that just in your head go rage x/day easy.The CMB is simply grapple it all ports over very easy and seems to work with 3.0 stuff as well as it does 3.5 stuff.

 

[SSquirrel]

Of course they're building more granularity into the system b/c they don't think that all the rage powers ARE equal. So the costs aren't the same for every ability. I don't think this is exactly a bad thing, I just wonder how it will work when looking at backwards compatibility.

Besides I thought the point of the classes was to take one for a bit then shoot off into prestige classes. It's been intended to be a dipfest since 3.0.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Well, then don't try to compare it to 4E. I think your (and my) 4E fanboyism makes it hard, due to the reason why Pathfinder emerged - but just stop thinking of it as D&D, compare it to something else instead, like AE.

Which is also my main beef with Pathfinder - they're moving away from backwards compatibility to an extent that I probably just go AE or Iron Heroes, if 4E doesn't pan out for me - because the 3.5 compatibility soon reaches the same point. Clear case of overdesign.

Cheers, LT.

Well, if I compare it to AE, I think it looks nice so far. But then, it's not really what I would have expected of a 3.5 compatible game that is to support 3.5!

But maybe my expectation is wrong. I mean, we already have 3.5, right? To support it, we only need some more adventuring material. (Do we need more splat books, too? How well will Pathfinder support this need - if there is one - with it becoming a "Variant Player's Handbook"?)

But one hope I would have (but didn't really expect) is to fix inherent problems of 3.5. And it's not doing that for me, so far. (Neither did AE. IH only "fixed" one thing - magic dependency, but the math still is the same)

 

[SSquirrel]

AE removed save or die, alignment and the arcane/divine split, the latter of which helped to lighten the healing load from any one character. At least, those were all things I felt needed work

 

[RangerWickett]

I can't get to the article, so this might be redundant, but if I were to redesign the barbarian, during your rage I'd give you:

Bonus HP and Fort saves. (not a con increase, though)
Penalty to AC.
One other ability, chosen each round.


That ability could be:

Bonus to damage.
Bonus speed.
Bonus to bull rushing, throwing, and tripping (in the "I push you and you fall down" sense, not the "I wrap your leg with a spiked chain and yank" sense).
Free extra Will save with a bonus.
Bonus attack with 'natural weapon' (kick, knee, bite, head butt, etc.)


Also, from leveling up, there would just be some standard barbarian bonuses:

Ability to wield over-sized weapons.
DR
Resistance to mind-affecting abilities.
Removal of penalties for using improvised weapons.


As you gain levels, I'd have more options open up for your rage (still one per round):

Self-healing.
Animal senses.
Even greater bonuses to damage or speed or shoving/throwing.
Built-in knockback effect with your attack.
Fear and intimidation effects.


And at very high levels, there'd be super over the top stuff:

Use multiple lower level rage options each round.
Roar for a sonic attack.
Throwing and returning weapons.
Elemental fury makes your weapons flaming, or cracks the earth, or lets you fly when you charge.
Massive object hurling.
Ability to stave off death, regardless of injury.


I think that would make for a fun barbarian.

 

[EricNoah]

For a magic-hating barbarian, how about a powerful blow that actually dispels magic? A "debuffing blow" or something less meta-gamey?