Pathfinder 1E Pathfinder Turning

[Nyarlathotep]

I like the PF turning rules a lot. To me them seem like a slight expansion of the alternate turning rules from Complete Divine (which I generally liked). It's been awhile since I've looked at the Alpha (got a couple other games going on), does it address the effect that turning feats have on it? Things like Empowered turning etc?

I also agree with Wulf re: the feature/bug aspect of turning/channelling. I've been considering creating a group of feats that allow the chanelling to affect undead as opposed to automatically affecting them. Or maybe making the ability to channel/turn a feat selection available to clerics.

 

[Volaran]

I like the PF turning rules a lot. To me them seem like a slight expansion of the alternate turning rules from Complete Divine (which I generally liked). It's been awhile since I've looked at the Alpha (got a couple other games going on), does it address the effect that turning feats have on it? Things like Empowered turning etc?

Empower Turning, and many of the other Divine Feats are not in the 3.5 SRD, so I'm not sure Pathfinder can be expected to address them immediately.

I don't think there is any problem making similar powers. For instance, ENWorld's own War of the Burning Sky adventure path contains a Reactive Counterspell feat similar to WotC's own. However, I don't know that this would be a priority right away.

Previously in this thread, since Roman had mentioned the cleric in his game was using Quicken Turning, I did discuss my thoughts on what I think should change about that feat before adding it to Pathfinder. I think some other turning-based feats may need some change before being ported to Pathfinder.

 

[Phlebas]

...... It's been awhile since I've looked at the Alpha (got a couple other games going on), does it address the effect that turning feats have on it? Things like Empowered turning etc?

there's a few addressed in alpha 3. selective channeling (choose who's affected) extra channeling (almost an essential now) and outsider / elemental channeling (affect outsiders / elementals). Quicken wasn't mentioned and has been debated a lot on the paizo boards

Beta due soon......prob best to wait until then to discuss specificities

 

[Kerrick]

The Gray Render zombie in the SRD has 20HD... and it's CR6. Such creatures also typically have a Will save more than double their CR. The Gray Render has Will +12.

Compared to the CR7 Spectre: 7 HD, 45 hp, Will +7, +2 turn resistance, CR7.

If we use Upper Krust's CR system (which, IIRC, appeared in one of your books), the render zombie is CR 8 and the specter CR 6. If you want a straight-up comparison, let's use the wyvern zombie (also CR 6): 14 HD, Will +9.

Now, if we use a Will-save-based turning mechanic (like, oh, this one, they're on equal footing - they both have +9 base Will save; the specter gets another +2 for its HD (for a total of +11), and the wyvern gets +4 (for a total of +13). Looking at it now, though, I think I'll drop the HD bonus for mindless undead.

On a side note: Has anyone thought about changing Will saves to be modified by Charisma instead of Wisdom? This would directly benefit intelligent undead vs. mindless ones (mindless would suffer a -5 to their Will saves, making them very easy to turn - the wyvern zombie from the above example would have a +8 vs. the specter's +9).

 

[Scott DeWar]

over on the Paizo boards they're discussing wether the cleric should lose spontaneous curing / inflicting as part of the balancing act. thoughts?

untill i play test it more, i would like to say keep it (spontaneous curing / inflicting ) as a dm with two of 4 characters that have cleric levels, i have seen no imbalence ... yet.

Maximise HP for BBEG undead to counter the channeling (keeps the other abilities level)

I actually, for the sake of simplicity, max hp for characters and monsters. I can come up with a moster encounter pretty quick by doing that and the party has no clue as to what i am rolling!

 

[tricky_bob]

I think it's way, way overpowered, and makes healing spells useless. There's absolutely no need for healing spells, when a cleric can heal the entire party with one use of turn undead. 4d6 healing to the entire party at level 7 compared to cure serious, a 4th level spell gained at level 7 for 4d8+7 to ONE person? Not to mention the effect on the game world. 600 soldiers wounded, possibly dying from a battle, just cram 'em in one room and let a cleric walk by and poof they're back on the front lines. An 8th level cleric can easily use this "healing surge" 8 times a day and eleven with the extra turning feat. 44d6 of healing per day.

I have made the "Turn" either channel positive Healing OR positive Damaging energy.
I didn't like the idea of Evil Cleric with undead minions getting healed at the same time as the PC's are getting damaged.

But more than that I hate the idea that a Turn can heal the party AND harm undead at the same time. It messes with the CR's of all undead creatures.

 

[concerro]

nevermind. I did not know how old the thread was.