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Message: <blockquote data-quote="CleverNickName" data-source="post: 4214989" data-attributes="member: 50987">I'm a 4E skeptic myself, but I'm holding out until I have the books before I make the decision to switch or not.  My players are far less likely to switch than I am, anyway...so it's not like I need to decide today, anyway.1.  "1 hp minions."  Yeah, these bother me too.  Not a deal-breaker, because I can always just decide not to use them (at least, I hope so.)2.  "No second attacks with a second weapon."    Call me crazy, but I actually like this.  I've always thought that a second weapon should give you options, not extra attacks...options like two different types of damage, two different ranges, etc.  That, and creatures with more than <s>one</s> two arms become much less game-breaking (thri-kreen rangers, I'm looking at you.)3.  Missing monsters in the MM.  I agree completely.  In effect, it feels like they are trying to get us to subscribe to textbook editions.  I'm not at all thrilled about that.4.  Infinite wizard magic. Truth be told, I am so tired of Vancian magic, that just about anything else would be better.  This was a huge selling point for me.5.  No gnome illusionists.   In more than 15 years of gaming, I have never had a single player roll up a gnome...or an illusionist, for that matter.  So this will probably impact me very little.  That said, it still would have been nice to have the option.6.  No penalties.  I thought about it, and I agree.  I would much rather have bonus/penalty mechanics than bonus/no bonus mechanics.7.  Teleporting PCs.  I agree.  Yes, I know they are going to nerf the crap out of it, and yes I know it will probably end up being more like "moving really quick" instead of at-will blinking or Potter-style apparation, but the mechanics aren't what I dislike about it.  The flavor is wrong.  So right now, I am leaning toward banning it just on principle.8. Too much ZOWIE. I laughed aloud when I read this.  And I can see what you mean by it.  But the thing is, I happen to like zowie.9.  Open Gaming issues.   I was disappointed to hear it, as well.  And I worry about what will happen to Paizo now, because I really like their stuff.  But I don't think this will affect whether or not I ever play 4E; it will just impact whether or not people are still playing 4E in another five years.Some of my own strikes against 4E:A.  Lame PC races.  I don't like tieflings and dragonborn.  I've explained this already in another thread, but the gist of it is this: I don't like to blur the line between the good guys and the bad guys.  Dragons and Outsiders are clearly the "bad guys" in my games, and I want to keep them that way.B.  Favorite classes missing.   As with the MM, I don't want to subscribe to buying the newest PHB every year just to get the classes that I like.  The lack of popular classes (the druid, barbarian, and monk in particular) is the main reason why my players are opposed to 4E.C.  Marking.   I've run a couple of little test games (I call them "micro-games," since they are little more than situational combat sessions) with the 4E Lite rules, and I can already tell that marking is going to be more trouble than it is worth.  I've used everything from loops of color-coded wire to poker chips, and nothing works to my satisfaction.  There is just no way to make it easy.  If I go to 4E, I'm going to hand-wave the crap out of this...or ignore it altogether.</blockquote>

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