PC Gen and OGL(?) Compliancy

[dvvega]

Greetrings,

I've not been around for a while, so I missed the whole ... PCGen has been made OGL compliant phase. Last time I was about, I heard that they had been approached by WOTC at GenCon or something.

Now my question ...

what exactly had to be done to make it compliant? Was it essentially the removal of any rules information from the compiled product? Or is there more to it than that?

Could someone give me a "summary" or perhaps point me to the appropriate thread.

Thanks in advance

 

[Slander]

Hey,

One quick thing to clear up: PCGen approached WotC at GenCon, not the other way around. They had been trying to establish a formal dialogue with WotC for awhile and the opportunity presented itself at GenCon. WotC did not force PCGen to go in the direction it has ... they choose to become OGL and d20 compliant. So, whatever your opinion on the current state of PCGen, don't blame Wizards; WotC has assisted PCGen extensively in their voluntary effort to become d20 and OGL compliant.

The main task was ensuring no rules were put into the source code itself. Everything PCGen does at this point is defined by the data files. While I haven't messed with it extensively, it should allow for much more flexability. Though, everyone is still waiting for a LST file editor.

The following threads here talk more about what they've done.

PCGen 4.0 Released
http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?threadid=24296

PCGen Officially d20/OGL Compliant
http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?threadid=24295

PCGen 3.1.0 Released
http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?threadid=22099

State of PCGen (on yahoo group)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen/files/State_O_PCGen

Welcome Notice (on yahoo group)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen/files/Welcome

That should get you up to speed. One quick thing: the topic has been discussed to death on the yahoo group and they're trying to get back to normal. If you ask real nice, they may fill you in on the board; likely, they'll give you a canned response (which I believe comes from the State of PCGen file). If you do ask, don't bash or down WotC (not that you would, but it really hurts their chances of getting the non-SRD material back if you do).

Hope that helps.



Slander

 

[dvvega]

Thank you for that Slander.

I wasn't blaming anyone for anything. I just wanted to know what it all meant.

So from the gist of what you've said, as long as the program itself does not execute rules information then it's OGL compliant?

So for example a feat that adds +3 hit points every time it is taken has to be described outside of the program itself, and the program may only interpret that description ... am I understanding correctly?

 

[Slander]

Sorry if I came off accusatory. A lot of the info coming from those "out of the loop" said WotC came and laid the smackdown on PCGen, which was simply not the case. I jes wanted to clear that up in case that was the type of info you had heard .

I'm not claiming to know what feature applies to which license ... BUT I *believe* the separation of rules from code applies more to the d20 and d20stl than it does the OGL. That is based on my (possibly mis)interpretations of other posts on the subject.

However, to answer your question, I am fairly sure the answer is "yes", as long as the code cannot perform rules calculations on it's own, it is compliant with the <not sure which> license. Don't take that as gospel-truth by any means, though. As a matter of fact ... I'm gonna step out of the license questions/details at this point since I'm really not at all qualified to answer them.

Misinformation tends to be worse than no information. Hopefully Mynex or Leopold will chime in on this.



Slander

 

[Mynex]

Here I am to savve the day!!!!

Okay, bad Mighty Mouse sorry.

Slander, Thanks for piping up, you're mostly right.

Wizards did NOT lay the smack down, actually at GenCon we were looking for Each other (quite by accident we managed to get Anthony V on his lunch so the timimg on saturday was perfect!).

And the split is pretty accurate to what you stated. Code is D20STL and Data files are OGL.

Yes the 2 work together as a whole, but the code _can not_ contain any character information, it can _only_ interpret from the data files what to do for character creation.

For compliancy the only thing that is really gone from the code for D20 compliancy is the ability to roll random stats. That's it. Everything else was pretty much backend stuff, taking things out of the code and putting it into list files.

That cover it guys?

 

[dvvega]

Thank you very much ... covers it perfectly.

The question came out of a design I have on paper for a suite of programs that do more than just character management ... conceivably (if my design is accurate) it can do combat, skill checks, etc etc.

Now it is intended to run on data files, always has been, however certain basic mechanics like (roll d20 add modifiers) were to be in code ... from what you've just said ... that's a big no-no ... in fact it would seem the act of rolling dice in a program is a no-no if the results of those rolls are to be used.

 

[Mynex]

Thank you very much ... covers it perfectly.

The question came out of a design I have on paper for a suite of programs that do more than just character management ... conceivably (if my design is accurate) it can do combat, skill checks, etc etc.

Now it is intended to run on data files, always has been, however certain basic mechanics like (roll d20 add modifiers) were to be in code ... from what you've just said ... that's a big no-no ... in fact it would seem the act of rolling dice in a program is a no-no if the results of those rolls are to be used.

To be D20 compliant that is true. If you are planning on just being OGL then you can include Die Rolling and whatnot.

I think Chris or Dee from Twin Rose might be able to be more specific on that, since they are going OGL compliancy only, they can most definately tell you what is and isn't allowed under that license (the 2 licenses have become so intertwined in my mind that it's hard for me to think in the either/or category of them for software anymore. )

If you have any other questions feel free to ask!

 

[Twin Rose]

To be D20 compliant that is true. If you are planning on just being OGL then you can include Die Rolling and whatnot.

I think Chris or Dee from Twin Rose might be able to be more specific on that, since they are going OGL compliancy only, they can most definately tell you what is and isn't allowed under that license (the 2 licenses have become so intertwined in my mind that it's hard for me to think in the either/or category of them for software anymore. )

I would be happy to, though really there isn't much to it. The d20 system guide really details out what you have to do to be d20 compliant, and while we managed to do it - it wouldn't fit with our claims of compatibility for future, non-d20 products.

Stat rolling and even combat tracking is okay, but remember that because of the OGL it still has to be stored in the data files, and not handled directly by the code. This will make it a little more difficult, but not impossible to be sure.

Indicating compatibility without a second agreement with thep ublisher is not possible without the d20 logo - no "D&D" or "D20" claims in our advertising.

A point of note here is that third-party CS expansions will keep the d20 logo - so we are not changing the branding on anything that we license from publishers.

Please excuse my 'lag time' in responses, I was injured the other night, and it happens to affect my arm which makes typing difficult.

 

[dvvega]

Chris,

first off ... sorry to hear about your accident, and I hope you get well soon.

Thank you for your reply. Looks like I either redesign or I just think OGL.