PCs Running away when they should

[Greybar]

In Destans excellent story hour, Joshua Randall made a very good comment:

The advice to run is often a PC's best option. But how often do they heed it? *shakes head sadly*

Didn't Gandalf put it best in Fellowship of the Ring: "This foe is beyond any of you. Run!"

Indeed, as a GM I think it's part of my job to sometimes throw challenges out there where the players should at least seriously consider retreat if not immediately take to their heels. Even the heroes of Sepulchrave's story hour had to flee a few episodes back.

But it can be hard to disengage from an enemy in D&D (much as in real-life), particularly for those not blessed by high-level spells such as Teleport.

So I'm interested in your thoughts:
1) Is your gaming group good at assessing when you should flee?
2) Do you trust that your GM would never throw something at your that you couldn't handle?
3) Do you think it is feasible to withdraw from combat, or does your last chance to get away disappear when you close within 60" or so?

john

 

[Chimera]

My last group was really bad at it. Even after giving them hints that "this foe is beyond you", some of the less bright members kept insisting that they believed that I would never throw anything at them that they couldn't handle. (Bzzzzzt! Wrong!)

After the last such encounter, they apparently decided to try to teach me a lesson by fleeing from the next three entire scenarios, causing me to scrap a lot of hard work and really p!ssing me off.

This was just before the entire game and gaming group exploded in flames (almost two years ago).

Fortunately, my new gaming group is a bit smarter. It helps that it's a CoC group just taking a haitus from that game.

 

[Crothian]

Not only is our group not willing to run away from fights, the fights that tthey should run away from they win. Either through some super herioc idea or planning or action, or the DM messing up the encounter by playing it wrong or something. We've had the best luck in surving encounters we should never have had.

But my new group hopefully will run when needed.

 

[Verdigris]

Running is often the best option for a PC.

However, running is terrifically unheroic.

If I wanted to imaginatively re-enact the activities of an individual running away, I would play myself in the d20 Modern setting.

So neither my characters nor my player's characters run away very often. It is not necessarily the smartest thing, but it *is* more fun.

 

[Greybar]

Mechanically it can be hard to retreat it seems.

The bad guys generally tend to prefer living (or unliving) as well, and I've tried to have my "smart" opponents willing to retreat rather than fight to the death, but it can be hard. Much of that comes from the general scenario where the PCs will outnumbers the enemy, though that ratio can be turned on the PCs as well.

Does anyone's group have well-organized plans about how to get out of trouble - using their tumbling, range weapons, spells or special abilities and the like? Or does it tend to be a pell-mell rush for the point farthest away from the fighting?

john

 

[Grand_Director]

So I'm interested in your thoughts:
1) Is your gaming group good at assessing when you should flee?
2) Do you trust that your GM would never throw something at your that you couldn't handle?
3) Do you think it is feasible to withdraw from combat, or does your last chance to get away disappear when you close within 60" or so?

john

I never, NEVER prepare an encounter that my players are unable to handle. But, sometimes a tough encounter can go horribly wrong due to bad rolls, poor judgment or a combination of both.

Now, my players know that I will not hesitate to kill some one off in a tough fight. So they will run from a fight that goes wrong.

On the other hand, they know I would never create an encounter they couldn't handle so that would not stop them from entering a fight that "looks" too hard. This is an important distinction. If my players thought that I would place impossible encounters in the game, half the time they would be running away from danger. Nothing would ever get done!

There is a big difference between "This temple is going to be tough, some of us might not make it out if we are not careful." and "There is no way I am entering that temple. We'll all die."

Of course my players have free will and can do what they want but as a DM I only have so much that I can prepare on the fly. If they said they were going into the temple and two weeks later when they got there they changed their minds...game over.

Now, I do place iMpossible encounters and villains in the world as a goal. But I make sure to let them know that they should not even consider them until they are higher level.

 

[Joshua Randall]

In ~20 years of D&D gaming (as both a player and a DM), I have never encountered a group that knew when to run - with one single exception*.

As a DM, I have gone so far as to tell my players that I will assault them with enemies too difficult for them to handle. They still don't run. *sigh* Maybe it's not heroic to run away, but it can make for some great adventures as the PCs strive to overcome a tough foe from whom they had to flee - by leveling up, finding out information about the foe and its weaknesses, and obtaining allies or assistance to take down the enemy.

As a player, I will often suggest that the group have an escape plan in case things blow up in our faces, but my suggestions are cheerfully ignored. Oh well.

* The only time I've seen D&D groups flee consistently is in Living Greyhawk / RPGA games, and that's because there is a huge premium on keeping your PC alive in those games - death tends to be either permanent or cripplingly expensive to overcome. By contrast, in a normal, home-brew campaign, death is a minor inconvenience, so running is not necessary.

 

[Djeta Thernadier]

I don't think running is always unheroic. Heroes have to be smart as well. Sometimes, PCs end up in a situation where they would be best to retreat and formulate a better tactical plan, rather than just running into battle. Or pulling back, getting reinforcements and returning to fight when the odds are better.

Luckily, in one of my games, we are not put up against much that we can't handle. Occasionally, players do stupid things like running in when they should really go for range weapons against an enemy. So far , only two PCs have died and that was in the same battle. Partly because of bad tactics on their part, and partly because of really lucky rolling on the DMs park.

In the other game, two weeks ago, the DM set up a camp of orcs we were to battle. So two of the PCs, a paladin and a rogue decided to scout ahead and check it out. They ended up deciding to take on the entire orc camp themselves and the paladin died. Really, it was just bad tactics on their part. Not only as PCs, but as players, because the rest of the group had to sit there and watch them get their butts kicked and didn't do anything the entire session.

Our whole group could have easily taken on the orcs and not taken a lot of damage, most likely. Which I think is what the DM intended.

Of course, sometimes, as in real life, running is not an option. Sometimes the enemy can outrun you and you have no choice.

I wonder how many DMs would choose to put their PCs up against a monster on the spot like that , though? At least one that they knew the party had no escape from, and little chance of beating.

 

[Alejandro]

My new group knows when to run, but we don't always succeed. As Djeta says, sometimes the enemy can outrun you, and there's just no in-game way you can stop the impending carnage.

Eight characters go in, two come out...

 

[Umbran]

So I'm interested in your thoughts:
1) Is your gaming group good at assessing when you should flee?

Well, here's the thing - you use the LotR quote, but that rarely fits what happens in a gaming session. Gandalf said run. Gandalf was accepted as the leader of the Fellowship, and everyone recognized his knowledge. Does every party have a Gandalf? No.

Frequently, in a gaming session characters fail to run because they don't have that knowledge. They aren't going to run if they've no particular reason to do so.

And "hints" generally don't but it. Everyone in the adventuring biz knows about posturing. The fact that he makes himself look tough doesn't mean he is tough. The only way to (legally) know a critter's power is to either make the appropriate Knowledge check, or engage in combat. And once you've done the latter, it's often too late.

2) Do you trust that your GM would never throw something at your that you couldn't handle?
3) Do you think it is feasible to withdraw from combat, or does your last chance to get away disappear when you close within 60" or so?

For #2 - it varies among the GMs I know. Some will throw things the party cannot handle, others won't.

For #3 - whether or not one can withdraw from combat depends entirely on the particular situation. If the critter is a zombie that moves slowly, sure. If, however, the critter is a flying dragon and your poor dwarf has a move of 20', you've got problems that the better part of valor won't solve.