PCs using bluff on PCs
- Thread starter Moff_Tarkin
- Start date
Bluff != dominate
You cant win a bluff/diplomacy check and force another player or NPC to do something they wouldnt do of their own free will.
The best example I can think of for sense motive is this one:
A well known criminal is caught at the scene of a crime, the police officer has seen this shadey character in thecells many times and takes him in for questioning. The man in question didnt commit the crime be he witnessed the whole event, however when asked he denies seeing anything occuring at the time he was there.
[Bluff check vs police officers sense motive, succeds]
As the individual succeded on his bluff check the police officer cant tell that the criminal is lying. He has no indication that the man is telling an untruth (If the bluff had failed then he would know that the man was lying).
HOWEVER
The policeman still does not trust the criminal, he may believe that the criminal is still hiding something from him. He most certainly ISNT going to release this shadey no-good character just because the prisoner makes a diplomacy check.
Bluff is just that, its a way to lie, diplomacy is a way to change attitudes. But neither are domination effects that force any player (or npc) to take any action they would not normally or of their own free will. Which is why bluff and diplomacy wont work on players.
Majere.
You cant win a bluff/diplomacy check and force another player or NPC to do something they wouldnt do of their own free will.
The best example I can think of for sense motive is this one:
A well known criminal is caught at the scene of a crime, the police officer has seen this shadey character in thecells many times and takes him in for questioning. The man in question didnt commit the crime be he witnessed the whole event, however when asked he denies seeing anything occuring at the time he was there.
[Bluff check vs police officers sense motive, succeds]
As the individual succeded on his bluff check the police officer cant tell that the criminal is lying. He has no indication that the man is telling an untruth (If the bluff had failed then he would know that the man was lying).
HOWEVER
The policeman still does not trust the criminal, he may believe that the criminal is still hiding something from him. He most certainly ISNT going to release this shadey no-good character just because the prisoner makes a diplomacy check.
Bluff is just that, its a way to lie, diplomacy is a way to change attitudes. But neither are domination effects that force any player (or npc) to take any action they would not normally or of their own free will. Which is why bluff and diplomacy wont work on players.
Majere.
iwatt
First Post
I agree, Bluff and diplomacy can't cause someone to go against their better judgement. But I use bluff and diplomacy and Intimidate between the PCs in my campaign. It can be easily abused, but I see no reason you shoeuld contnue playing with someone as immatuer that he'll take your Greatsword. Besides, remember that no matter how friendly you are to someone, you're not an idiot:
"King Arthur, I'm your lost heir and the chosen bearer of Excalibur. Please hand it over." roll Dipo and Bluff.....50+ in both.
"Sure buddy, you're my heir but unless God tell me to hand over this sword, it's staying in my hands."
Or to bring it into context in a game I used to play. Not even charm person is so powerful. My rogue was the bearer of the holy secret Mcguffin. He fell in the grasp of the Archmage who was lusting for it. He of course failed his will save (multiclass fighter rogues
) and was extremely helpful to the Archmage. But if you're the sole bearer of the key to ultimaste power and you'er also an insanely greedy bastard, I don't care how friendly you are with someone you won't hand over the Mcguffin. MY DM had no problem with my evasiveness in answering questions until the wizard became threatening which broke the spell.
Basically, if you use common sense, inter-PC skill checks are very cool. But you have to limit Metagaming. And if the Bard Villain rolled a +50 diplomacy check, you don't have to aid him, but it should make you less likely to coup de grace him. Maybe you want to save him, bring him to the light, etc... Even if you know that slaying him and then looting him is the "Optimum " choice
"King Arthur, I'm your lost heir and the chosen bearer of Excalibur. Please hand it over." roll Dipo and Bluff.....50+ in both.
"Sure buddy, you're my heir but unless God tell me to hand over this sword, it's staying in my hands."
Or to bring it into context in a game I used to play. Not even charm person is so powerful. My rogue was the bearer of the holy secret Mcguffin. He fell in the grasp of the Archmage who was lusting for it. He of course failed his will save (multiclass fighter rogues
) and was extremely helpful to the Archmage. But if you're the sole bearer of the key to ultimaste power and you'er also an insanely greedy bastard, I don't care how friendly you are with someone you won't hand over the Mcguffin. MY DM had no problem with my evasiveness in answering questions until the wizard became threatening which broke the spell.Basically, if you use common sense, inter-PC skill checks are very cool. But you have to limit Metagaming. And if the Bard Villain rolled a +50 diplomacy check, you don't have to aid him, but it should make you less likely to coup de grace him. Maybe you want to save him, bring him to the light, etc... Even if you know that slaying him and then looting him is the "Optimum " choice
Sebastian Francis
First Post
Lord Pendragon said:
I agree with your premise, that PCs should *not* be allowed to influence other PCs through Bluff, etc. checks. But your example shows a misunderstanding of the Diplomacy skill...it isn't a "mind control" skill. I've had plenty of players who thought otherwise, of course. "I'll use Diplomacy to get the busty wench to take off her shirt" etc.
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