D&D 5E PDFs and Next

[billd91]

Maybe even more like a different form or format. For example, maybe they think Adobe Acrobat Reader on its way out the door soon or a new smartphone platform is coming that will change things, or maybe they haven't gotten the deal they wanted from Apple or Google or Microsoft or whomever, there's a lot of things that could be a factor that aren't just which current hgadgets some people have. The tech world is changing so fast and many (most?) volume sellers are using "The Cloud" instead of you storing the data locally.

I can understand someone wanting to set to the new standard (thus proliferating the number of competing ones out there) and riding that wave if they've got something good and ready to go, but this really sounds more like a rationale to not get into the market at all. There will always be something better over the horizon. That is inevitable. But they also have a market they can serve now with some pretty stable and broadly useable standards. It strikes me as foolish to ignore it under some assumption that the next thing to come along will be "the ONE".

 

[Texicles]

Wait. Stop right there. Analogy fail.

Senior citizens have a right to certain personal freedoms.

You don't have a "right" to have a book in pdf format.

While your second two statements are correct, I have to disagree with your assessment of the analogy. I cannot speak globally on the subject, but I can state with certainty that driving is not counted among rights in America. As there is a minimum driving age (historically subject to change by the enactment of a law) so too can a maximum age be applied.

Is that likely to happen? No. A system that allows individuals to lose the privilege is much less likely to cause an outrage across the population than a blanket decision applied to the entire demographic.

This is what makes the analogy, as I read it, a perfectly cromulent one. That's not to say that I agree or disagree with either of you, I just felt the need to throw a flag on the play.

 

[Umbran]

The point of the analogy wasn't about rights, it was about the intertwining of reason (or intention) and a subsequent action based on that reason.

Ah. Sorry. The example you chose implied a bit more than that, at least to me.

You can have the reason without the action, but you can't have the action without the reason (people don't do things randomly or make decisions in a vaccuum);

First off, you give people far too much credit. People are not so stone-cold rational. A great many human decisions are made based off of feeling and intuition, and are only logically justified after the fact - and often the person deciding doesn't realize that is how the decision was made. I can dig up the scholarly articles on such, if you'd like.

And, as noted, I don't assume that the publicly stated reason is the whole story. Ergo, I don't read too much into the publicly stated reason, and find arguments based on such an assumption to be a bit weak.

therefore if the reason is insulting, so is the action.

And, I still don't understand how that publicly stated reason is "insulting". It may well just be dumb and wrongheaded. But insult I still don't see. "We think doing this will hurt us economically," may be wrong, but it isn't an insult.

I don't feel I'm entitled to have the product I want. But I do have the right to apply pressure with my money, in an attempt to influence a company into providing the product I want. Just as they have the right to not provide a product I want, I have the right to choose whether I do business with them.

Most certainly. Again, your right to vote with your wallet I admit to. I'm just trying to understand the "insult" part of it - without some sort of entitlement, I don't see how it is punishment or insulting.

 

[Alzrius]

While your second two statements are correct, I have to disagree with your assessment of the analogy. I cannot speak globally on the subject, but I can state with certainty that driving is not counted among rights in America. As there is a minimum driving age (historically subject to change by the enactment of a law) so too can a maximum age be applied.

You seem to be saying that because something has a minimum age requirement, and has been changed by law over time, that it isn't a right. Unto itself, that's not so - voting is most definitely a right, but that also has a minimum age requirement that has been changed by enactments of law over time.

A lot of people talk categorically about things that are or are not rights, forgetting that the idea of what constitutes a "right" is a contentious one in and of itself.

EDIT: One of my favorite examples of this is how, in some countries, human rights include the right to internet access.

 

[Texicles]

While a very small issue, another thing pdfs are horrible for is passive advertising of a product...

Also, what percentage of the population even owns tablets, let alone split between Apple and other? It may be growing, but they may have data showing that that portion of the market isn't big enough to really worry about yet. At the rate new tech is coming out, throwing a bunch of resources at a potentially soon-obsolete medium doesn't make much business sense.

Your first point is an excellent one that I totally hadn't considered.

I'll admit, I fall into the upper-middle class and technophile demographics, and may, as such, have a bias. In purely anecdotal and non-statistical terms, most of the RPG players I've encountered are middle class and up. With the ubiquity of computers in the average household, some form of e-pub (probably, though not necessarily, PDFs) could be utilized by a significant portion of the playerbase, even if not on a tablet or smartphone.

The concern about ever-changing technology is not one that needs to be worried about. This paradigm is largely applicable to hardware, but much less so to software. My computer's graphics cards were "old news" from the moment I bought them, but the operating systems and many file types that they render were/are not. The PDF is somewhere around 20 years old, and while there are certainly fancier formats out there, and eventually one of those will probably replace it, it's still the industry standard across PC, Mac, Android and iOS. Not to mention that any up-and-comer will make their new technology backward-compatible with PDF if they hope to one day succeed it.

The thing is, development time for e-pub content is pretty small, considering the huge margin of customers it can reach. Remember, all of those printed books go to the printer in digital format to begin with. All this being said, aside from the "piracy" issue, there's really no logical business decision that involves the exclusion of digital media (obviously that's in addition to the printed stuff).

...the way to combat piracy is to provide an economical alternative, not to stop providing it.

This. It's a steep learning curve for companies sometimes, but I think that we've crossed some indeterminate threshold where media producers should see the truth in this, or fall by the wayside.

 

[Texicles]

You seem to be saying that because something has a minimum age requirement, and has been changed by law over time, that it isn't a right.

No no, it wasn't my intention to imply that driving is not a right because age restrictions are subject to change. I was just making the assertion that it was not, in fact, a right, and moving on.

The point about the potential for a maximum age on driving was specific to the notion of categorically excluding an entire demographic (with maximum age being the means by which this could be achieved) because of the actions of some members of that demographic. I felt that, when viewed under this light, the analogy was pretty pertinent.

Sorry for any confusion

 

[Agamon]

Maybe even more like a different form or format. For example, maybe they think Adobe Acrobat Reader on its way out the door soon or a new smartphone platform is coming that will change things, or maybe they haven't gotten the deal they wanted from Apple or Google or Microsoft or whomever, there's a lot of things that could be a factor that aren't just which current hgadgets some people have. The tech world is changing so fast and many (most?) volume sellers are using "The Cloud" instead of you storing the data locally.

Someone smarter than me can say how long pdfs have been around, I just know it's been quite a few years. Changes in tech aren't the leaps and bounds it looks like on the surface. All these advancements later, people still read pdfs, listen to mp3s and watch avis. And they all can be stored on the cloud.

Until the way we physically interact with digital products changes dramatically, this isn't anything to worry about.

 

[Lord Mhoram]

Would I like to see PDFs. Yes. Do I need them. No. I read game books to read them, like a novel, a biography or such things. I like the physicality of the book in my hand. But then I host the game (and have for 20+ years) so my books are here.

I like the physical books for reading, and the PDF for quick reference.

And I might change my mind when I get my first pad in a month or two (yeah 45 and getting his first pad).

 

[Herschel]

I'll admit, I fall into the upper-middle class and technophile demographics, and may, as such, have a bias. In purely anecdotal and non-statistical terms, most of the RPG players I've encountered are middle class and up. With the ubiquity of computers in the average household, some form of e-pub (probably, though not necessarily, PDFs) could be utilized by a significant portion of the playerbase, even if not on a tablet or smartphone.

It depends on where I'm at. In two groups none of us have any e-tools at the table. In one group, two may or may not have laptops. At LFR game days there's usually 21-28 people and I'll see three tablets and maybe a DM or two using a laptop. I admit I'm not a big fan of tech at the table, I think it tends to be distracting and take away from interpersonal relating. I also like my physical media. For me, DDI is what I want for e-content because the Compendium lets me look up anything I want in a pretty efficient way but sitting and reading is done from an actual book, and we pass books around when looking up things. It's old school, but I do like it. I have e-toys, but I'm probably not in the minority in that I don't like them for gaming books.

And as far as gamers being UMC, I think that's as dangerous an assumption as thinking we're all part-time pizza delivery guys living in our moms' basements. A number of us have corporate jobs, etc. but I see a wide dichotomy in gaming groups and at public events.

 

[Herschel]

Someone smarter than me can say how long pdfs have been around, I just know it's been quite a few years. Changes in tech aren't the leaps and bounds it looks like on the surface. All these advancements later, people still read pdfs, listen to mp3s and watch avis. And they all can be stored on the cloud.

Until the way we physically interact with digital products changes dramatically, this isn't anything to worry about.

I agree, but WotC decision makers may not. I'm just throwing out possible reasons as I'm not in their meetings nor do I have their marketing data.

And I also remember well the outcry when DDI went to "The Cloud" about people crying WotC was "Stealing their ideas/IP" and hyperbolic nonsense. Were I in a position to make that decision I'm not so sure I'd make it any differently to avoid that backlash. They're kind of danged if they do/danged if they don't unless they give a number of people what they really want: everything in every format for free.