D&D 5E PEACH: Homebrew Fighter sub-class

[Undrave]

Cloud Mountains Disciple

So, all the talk of improving Fighters and my own feelings toward the class have lead me to work on this homebrew for the last few weeks. It's also my first time using the Homebrewery website so this was neat!

Anyway, the design started first with the idea of expanding the Fighting Style class feature. I wanted syles that could work of the various weapon keywords (such as damage type). Then, it sort of ballooned into an exercise into designing an interesting Fighter with customization option that would still not include ressource tracking. So everything would have to be on a round by round basis. I also wanted to offer choices at level ups to fulfill the customization possibility. I had to come up with some sort of flavor and the whole mountain aspect appeared, though I wanted to keep it as setting neutral as I could. It helped me come up with the non-combat bits. I've actually contemplated spinning the 'Mountaineer' part into its own subclass and keep the 'school' part on its own so tell me how that would go.

I might have went too crazy in the number of options I tried to stuff in. The whole thing about skill requirement came a little later after I started coming up with my 'advanced' fighting style. As you'll notice I'm missing some skills but I just couldn't come up with more ideas. I could have cut Divine Style and just have you pick an extra style, but that felt boring. The Divine Styles were designed by keeping in mind what I consider the four main 'types' of Fighters (Sword and Board, Ranged Weapon, Big Stick Whacker, Twin Weapons) but without making so connected that there is an obvious best pick (thus, a non-choice) for your chosen type.

I gotta admit I was really scratching my head trying to come up with a capstone. Really, with the flavor I had developped it felt like the only way to go but I'm not sure how good or terrible it is.

Anyway, I'm hoping I can get some feedback and make it better! Please be brutal, I already have stuff on the cutting floor. Like, I originally intended the Fighting styles (from Fighting Style and Secret Style) to simple get buffs later instead but that meant not choice and that was boring so I came up with the Divine Styles. There's a few of my new Styles I really feel could be much more interesting but I'm not sure what to do, so suggest away (and maybe find me a better name than Brutal Badger Style ).

Thank you in advance guys!

 

[clearstream]

The success of a class comes down to a few core elements, so at this point I believe what you have is over-designed. The idea of connecting a fighting style to a skill proficiency feels like a unique angle, so perhaps that is your core element. If so, it needs to be working perfectly.

To playtest and refine efficiently, I would suggest leaving everything past tier-2 as just a design-sketch, and paring fighting styles down to the ones you feel most deliver on what you want to achieve. Then in your campaign encourage a player to take the class (or a DM to let you play it) and playtest it through to the end of tier-2.

You'll know by level 4 if it is working, be able to refine, and by level 8 have the most relevant-to-play parts of your design tested. Good design takes a lot of testing and refinement: iteration.

 

[Undrave]

The success of a class comes down to a few core elements, so at this point I believe what you have is over-designed. The idea of connecting a fighting style to a skill proficiency feels like a unique angle, so perhaps that is your core element. If so, it needs to be working perfectly.

To playtest and refine efficiently, I would suggest leaving everything past tier-2 as just a design-sketch, and paring fighting styles down to the ones you feel most deliver on what you want to achieve. Then in your campaign encourage a player to take the class (or a DM to let you play it) and playtest it through to the end of tier-2.

You'll know by level 4 if it is working, be able to refine, and by level 8 have the most relevant-to-play parts of your design tested. Good design takes a lot of testing and refinement: iteration.

I see... so I should drop the 'Mountain' theming then and focus on the Skills. I actually considered linking the Divine Styles to saving throws too, which is where I got the idea to make four (and then went with the theming I did).

Do you think the Fighting styles I got so far feel linked to their skills properly? Could it be better? Do you have idea how to use the missing skills?

Doing playtests is gonna be difficult...

 

[clearstream]

For me, the flavour of a class comes through its crunch not its fluff. Another way to put that is that fluff is "just words" until represented via the crunch. On the other hand, the fluff has a valuable role in inspiring the crunch. So I think you should preserve whatever you need to sustain that inspiration, but not over-commit on the fluff for the time being.

Then yes, the most flavourful thing coming across so far is the linking of styles to skills. You have prototyped a dozen, but I think you can uncover if the class works with no more than six. Perhaps focusing on skills most relevant to fighter, like Athletics. If that core works, chances are the rest can be made to work.

There are two aspects to that. One is the framework design - that paragraph directly under the "Secret Style" heading - which should specify things like whether the same style can be taken twice. The other is the component design, which is the design of the individual styles. Seeing as a player will get one pick, at 3rd-level, you should be able to prove how fun they are with half the number you have. And it will make it easier to focus and refine.

Thinking about how Divine Styles might work, I think you could apply a principle that the skill or save choice mandates the style. Divine Styles then have a "required save" which must the fighter must have proficiency with, just as Secret Styles have a "required skill". That language allows the save to be one the fighter had already, giving them some wiggle room in choosing a new one.

My taste is always toward designs that are joined up - threaded through with cohering principles that were inspired by and represent in the fluff.

If you can't playtest yourself, you might try to recruit others to do so.

 

[Undrave]

For me, the flavour of a class comes through its crunch not its fluff. Another way to put that is that fluff is "just words" until represented via the crunch. On the other hand, the fluff has a valuable role in inspiring the crunch. So I think you should preserve whatever you need to sustain that inspiration, but not over-commit on the fluff for the time being.

Then yes, the most flavourful thing coming across so far is the linking of styles to skills. You have prototyped a dozen, but I think you can uncover if the class works with no more than six. Perhaps focusing on skills most relevant to fighter, like Athletics. If that core works, chances are the rest can be made to work.

There are two aspects to that. One is the framework design - that paragraph directly under the "Secret Style" heading - which should specify things like whether the same style can be taken twice. The other is the component design, which is the design of the individual styles. Seeing as a player will get one pick, at 3rd-level, you should be able to prove how fun they are with half the number you have. And it will make it easier to focus and refine.

Thinking about how Divine Styles might work, I think you could apply a principle that the skill or save choice mandates the style. Divine Styles then have a "required save" which must the fighter must have proficiency with, just as Secret Styles have a "required skill". That language allows the save to be one the fighter had already, giving them some wiggle room in choosing a new one.

My taste is always toward designs that are joined up - threaded through with cohering principles that were inspired by and represent in the fluff.

If you can't playtest yourself, you might try to recruit others to do so.

I see I see... Now I need to find a decent name to cut down on the 'mountain' aspect. I think it muddies the waters a bit.

I would actually like to focus a bit more on the less standard skill choices. Arcana, History, Medicine, Religion and Performance, for example are all skills I'd like to favour. Performance is in there because I think Dancing Mantis Style is one of the better ones I came up with, though Note that it activates once per action and not per turn so you can still get it off when you make a off-hand attack and when you use Action Surge, by design.

I was thinking I could take Eagle Eye Style and Fell Scorpion Style and sort of frankenstein them together instead? Do you think the Potion/Poison thing plus the possibility to inflict a debuff would be too strong put together? I also can't help but feel like Regal Lion Style isn't strong enough but I'm not sure what to do.

What six skills would you favour?

Also, what do you think of the lv 7 ribbon ability?

As for the Divine Style and Saving Throws, the problem is that not all saving throws are being equal. I originally envisioned the four I have linked to the four Saves a Fighter doesn't start with, but who would ever pick Intelligence or Charisma saves? Most Fighters would probably go with Dexterity Saving throw, and a few with Wisdom.

 

[clearstream]

I would actually like to focus a bit more on the less standard skill choices. Arcana, History, Medicine, Religion and Performance, for example are all skills I'd like to favour...

What six skills would you favour?

I think you should go with your instincts. FWIW though less standard choices will likely lead to a more flavourful, but also more love-it-or-hate-it, class.

Also, what do you think of the lv 7 ribbon ability?

In being essentially a form of advantage History, it seems at odds with the idea of a diversity of disciplines.

As for the Divine Style and Saving Throws, the problem is that not all saving throws are being equal. I originally envisioned the four I have linked to the four Saves a Fighter doesn't start with, but who would ever pick Intelligence or Charisma saves? Most Fighters would probably go with Dexterity Saving throw, and a few with Wisdom.

That could be balanced against the relative power of the styles themselves. So the most valuable saving throw would associate with the least valuable effect.

 

[Undrave]

Well, you've given me some things to think about. I'm wondering if I could stick with the relationship between Skills and Fighting styles and not link Divine Style to saving throws, but this time have them grant a bonus to a specific skill (or one out of a choice of skills)? Like half-expertise or some type of reroll?

In being essentially a form of advantage History, it seems at odds with the idea of a diversity of disciplines.

There's also the Charisma check thing. I decided not to call out History just so players could justify using other proficiencies with it. Like Smith's Tools proficiency when identifying weapons, that sort of thing.

 

[Undrave]

I think you should go with your instincts. FWIW though less standard choices will likely lead to a more flavourful, but also more love-it-or-hate-it, class.

I'm thinking I might be trying to go too large... what if I were to create more precise Schools and have each be its own subclass with a smaller and more focused set of styles and choices?

By the way, thanks for commenting, nobody else has and these sort of brainstorming talks are important for my process.

 

[clearstream]

I'm thinking I might be trying to go too large... what if I were to create more precise Schools and have each be its own subclass with a smaller and more focused set of styles and choices?

By the way, thanks for commenting, nobody else has and these sort of brainstorming talks are important for my process.

Subclasses of a subclass?

 

[Undrave]

Subclasses of a subclass?

More like breaking the Subclass into multiple Subclass instead of one larger one. Maybe one where you want more WIS, one for more INT and one for CHA?