D&D (2024) The bladelock two-weapon fighter: fundamentally unsound?

[Ancalagon]

So I've been thinking about making a bladelock - a campaign I used to be in is being restarted, and I have to convert my level 11 bladebbound magus to 5.5e.

The bladelock seemed like a good way to go about it, although with a 1 level dip in fighter, as it is rather fragile and that one level of fighter does much (con saves for concentration, armor), but also really enables two-weapon fighting, providing both a combat style and weapon masteries, providing access to nick.

Then cast spirit shroud and go to town right!?

But last night, while working on it, I realized that all this is moot. The problem is the pact weapon... you only get one! So the big advantage of the bladelock - attacking with your casting cast vs dex or strength - is partially lost with two weapon fighting, because at least one of your attacks has to be made with a non-pact weapon.

Am I missing something?

 

[Mistwell]

No I think that's correct. You could go shillelagh (club) with the off-hand weapon?

 

[mellored]

It is just 1 Weapon. Though I imagine many DMs would allow 2 for dual wielding.

Alternatively, there are plenty of spells to cast that don't require a Cha (including Armor of Agathys and Spirit Shroud) thus you can just go with Dex (or Str).

But possibly more importantly for dual wielding, your missing the Nick property from Weapon Mastery. So you still want a 1 level dip into fighter. Getting armor is also good.

And I will toss out Eldritch Knight as another option.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

https://www.dndbeyond.com/equipment...A-FlwdCRvnuxy1deRnzqWbkf_1g-SaHDMJ2jBrqQS8tHe

 

[Kurotowa]

Revised 5e Bladelocks are finicky things. I keep seeing people trying to design them like a standard martial, and that just doesn't work. Even multiclass dips are only a partial solution.

The opinion I'm coming around to is that if you want standard martial tools like Weapon Masteries and a Fighting Style then you should be looking at an Eldritch Knight Fighter or some flavor of Paladin. A Bladelock has a different toolkit, and needs to build around those different tools.

For example, a Bladelock who takes Chain Pact for a Quasit familiar and slots Summon Undead: Putrid Spirit as their Concentration spell of choice. If the Quasit hits it applies a no-save Poisoned condition, and the Putrid Spirit has an aura that applies the Poisoned condition on a failed save. That helps with your weaker AC. But then if the Putrid Spirit hits a Poisoned target it applies a no-save Paralyzed condition, and now your melee attacks have Advantage and are auto-crits. Hey, maybe that makes Eldritch Smite worth taking, doesn't it?

That's the sort of unfair tactics a Bladelock should be built around. Not trying to be a store-brand Eldritch Knight.

 

[Worrgrendel]

Revised 5e Bladelocks are finicky things. I keep seeing people trying to design them like a standard martial, and that just doesn't work. Even multiclass dips are only a partial solution.

The opinion I'm coming around to is that if you want standard martial tools like Weapon Masteries and a Fighting Style then you should be looking at an Eldritch Knight Fighter or some flavor of Paladin. A Bladelock has a different toolkit, and needs to build around those different tools.

For example, a Bladelock who takes Chain Pact for a Quasit familiar and slots Summon Undead: Putrid Spirit as their Concentration spell of choice. If the Quasit hits it applies a no-save Poisoned condition, and the Putrid Spirit has an aura that applies the Poisoned condition on a failed save. That helps with your weaker AC. But then if the Putrid Spirit hits a Poisoned target it applies a no-save Paralyzed condition, and now your melee attacks have Advantage and are auto-crits. Hey, maybe that makes Eldritch Smite worth taking, doesn't it?

That's the sort of unfair tactics a Bladelock should be built around. Not trying to be a store-brand Eldritch Knight.

Except this tactic will never work for the Bladelock. The Putrid Spirit takes its turn immediately after you finish your turn. The paralyzed condition only lasts until the end its (the targets) next turn. Meaning the Bladelock will never get a swing at it while it is paralyzed. Depending on initiative rolls your party may get some swings at it, which can still be great, just not the Bladelock.

 

[Zardnaar]

1 level fighter dip and key everything of dexterity works.

16 cha 17 dex maybe. Depends if you want Agonizing Blast or use warlock stuff to buff hitting things.

Extra origin feats and Eldritch mind while being proficient in con saves.

 

[Tessarael]

Get the Polearm Master feat later. It allows that bonus attack to be with your Warlock's pact weapon. As others mentioned, a double-weapon as your pact weapon also works nicely.

The Warlock Hexblade archetype gets martial weapon proficiency, medium armor, and shields, so no need to level dip into Fighter.

 

[Zardnaar]

Get the Polearm Master feat later. It allows that bonus attack to be with your Warlock's pact weapon. As others mentioned, a double-weapon as your pact weapon also works nicely.

The Warlock Hexblade archetype gets martial weapon proficiency, medium armor, and shields, so no need to level dip into Fighter.

Double weapons?

 

[ECMO3]

So I've been thinking about making a bladelock - a campaign I used to be in is being restarted, and I have to convert my level 11 bladebbound magus to 5.5e.

The bladelock seemed like a good way to go about it, although with a 1 level dip in fighter, as it is rather fragile and that one level of fighter does much (con saves for concentration, armor), but also really enables two-weapon fighting, providing both a combat style and weapon masteries, providing access to nick.

Then cast spirit shroud and go to town right!?

But last night, while working on it, I realized that all this is moot. The problem is the pact weapon... you only get one! So the big advantage of the bladelock - attacking with your casting cast vs dex or strength - is partially lost with two weapon fighting, because at least one of your attacks has to be made with a non-pact weapon.

Am I missing something?

It is viable, but two weapon fighting is not the best style for a bladelock. You could, as others mentioned, go with pact of blade and pact of tome both and pick up a club with shillelagh for the off hand.

Two weapon fighting is generally much improved in the 2024 rules, but building your entire character around it can back you into a corner as you really need to find light magic weapons to stay on top. Swinging your non-magic dagger and Hand Axe +1 can be pretty demoralizing when other members in the party have a Staff of Striking, longsword flametongue, +2 Rapier and +2 Warhammer (actual examples from play in a campaign currently level 6). I think other options offer more flexibility.

The beauty of the Bladelock is with just a 13 strength you can use any melee weapon effectively.

I would recommend a Paladin dip instead of a fighter dip. I think the 2 1st level spell slots are more beneficial than the fighting style you get with a fighter. This gives you the mastery and lets you keep some of your 1st level Warlock spells (Hex) without the really weak upcast mechanics, gives some flexibility with Divine Smite and Wrathful Smite and potentially shield if you got it on a feat.

The Warlock multiclass I am running right now is 9th level (4 Fey Warlock, 1 Paladin, 4 Arcane Trickster Rogue). She isn't a Bladelock or "tank" type, she is a Rogue-Gish using Agonizing Blast-Truestrike with sneak attack. Having the Paladin (and Rogue) spell slots is huge though.