Pennant of Heaven's Armies - I Win Button?

[hailstop]

Is it just me or is the 16th level Invoker utility power Pennant of Heaven's Armies too powerful?

I realize it is a daily, but having a conjuration that is sustained with a minor action and grants allies in LOS a bonus (not even a power bonus) to all defenses equal to the caster's Wis bonus too powerfull? That doesn't even get into the bonuses to fear saves and damage (which isn't so bad).

Basically it seems the only way to deal with that is to stun the PC (and more to the point, not a stun that can be saved...or the leader can deal with that first.

Anyway, having the entire party with defenses +6 (or more!) just seems to make hitting very, very difficult...and very difficult to circumvent.

 

[keterys]

Yep, sounds like one of those 'And the monsters who can, flee' type dailies. Repeatedly in 4e WotC has forgotten that attack and defense bonuses shouldn't scale. +2 is fine, whether you're 1st level or 30th level.

And +8 is all kinds of bad. It's not going to make most monsters need 20s, so instead you'll have a fight that is mostly a foregone conclusion that just takes a while to resolve and isn't necessarily as clear to the DM so he can just call it.

 

[hailstop]

I just saw someone pointing out on the Wizards boards that the Pennant only allows _allies_ the bonus. Not the caster.

However, then he just combos that with the Armor of Shared Valor and we're back where we started anyways.

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

Eh.

So, once/day, the monster needs an 11 instead of a 3 to hit a weak defense.

I don't have a real problem with it.

Brad

 

[Tallifer]

Eh.

So, once/day, the monster needs an 11 instead of a 3 to hit a weak defense.

I don't have a real problem with it.

Brad

Quoted for truth.

 

[hailstop]

Eh.

So, once/day, the monster needs an 11 instead of a 3 to hit a weak defense.

I don't have a real problem with it.

Brad

Well sure, if you think it's just one monster...which it isn't. It's all of them. Against all PC's (assuming the Invoker is smart and is wearing Armor of Shared Valor).

And last time I checked, the monster usually doesn't get to pick what defense he attacks...most of the time it's AC (which usually is not the weak defense).

Oh, and by the time they're 30th level, that bonus is now +10.


Brutes? Forget about ever hitting.

If it ended in a turn..fine. If I could easily disrupt it...fine. And this isn't even a leader power...it's a controller power. If it was Sustain Standard, I could even probably accept it.

It's so good, it's a no-brainer to take. Which is Bad.

I mean, it's fine if you as a DM don't want your dramatic encounters to just become a huge grind while the monsters try to hit the PC's (and fail miserably).

Oh, and I just remembered...that's an untyped bonus. So it stacks with all the other defense bonuses that the PCs can fairly easily get.

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

I mean, it's fine if you as a DM don't want your dramatic encounters to just become a huge grind while the monsters try to hit the PC's (and fail miserably).

Action budget. If he's stunned or dazed, he isn't going to be able to do nearly as much. And I don't know about you, but my DMs throw those at us like they're candy.

I've fought plenty of monsters/npcs that at no point targeted my AC in the entire fight. As Victim points out, many things don't target AC if they don't want to. And that's almost always significantly lower, but the monster bonus to attack doesn't go down to compensate in general.

Hell, one could even say that it evens the playing field a bit, as, quite frankly, I'm freaking tired of being auto-hit by monsters. "Brad, does 35 hit your Avenger's Fort?" "No, you went too far over." Oy.

Brad

 

[Victim]

Eh.

So, once/day, the monster needs an 11 instead of a 3 to hit a weak defense.

I don't have a real problem with it.

Brad

That's actually pretty close to our experience. In one fight, I don't think it caused a single miss because most of the enemies only attacked NADs and were lucky. And, since Daze was getting thrown out all the time, our Invoker actually spent several whole turns just trying to maintain the power. However, we were only playing at mid paragon levels as opposed to Epic with its higher stat mods.

 

[hailstop]

Do you know what the Invoker's WIS bonus was? At +4 I don't really have an issue with it.

 

[Dice4Hire]

This is a good example of how bonuses tied to ability scores can be broken.

Yes, as written the power is too good. +2-4 would wrk.

In my games I cap many of these kinds of powers at +2 +1 per additional tier.