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<blockquote data-quote="pdzoch" data-source="post: 6939236" data-attributes="member: 80982">I use perception as an observational (all five senses) skill.&nbsp; This is why passive perception is an important number for the DM to keep track of.Investigation is a problem solving skill, and it must be deliberately executed to find solutions.Both could be roll played providing that the DM provides adequate descriptions and logical clues and the players are good at solving these puzzles.&nbsp; I like the skill check aspect because it allows my younger player and those who do not role play much to achieve the success that their character should.Regarding traps and hidden items.&nbsp; I view these items as having two characteristics: one is their concealment, and the other is their complication.&nbsp; Perception checks address the concealment nature.&nbsp; Is the trap well camouflaged, invisible, or simply screams &quot;Look at me! I'm a trap!&quot;&nbsp; The investigation check defeats the complication.&nbsp; Is the trap a simple, common, complex, or Gordian design?&nbsp; The perception skill allows pretty much anyone to discover a trap or secret door.&nbsp; But the investigation skill, which is hardly employed, allows for a designated &quot;Thelma&quot; in the Scooby Doo gang to solve the problem. While a secret door may be opened after a successful check (found the secret button, pulled the right rope, tilted the right book, etc), a locked and trap chest is a different story.&nbsp;Then the thieves tools enables a character to employ a bonus (if proficient) to disarm the trap if it is complicated, while a simple mechanism could be simple turned off by anyone once it is discovered.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="pdzoch, post: 6939236, member: 80982"] I use perception as an observational (all five senses) skill. This is why passive perception is an important number for the DM to keep track of. Investigation is a problem solving skill, and it must be deliberately executed to find solutions. Both could be roll played providing that the DM provides adequate descriptions and logical clues and the players are good at solving these puzzles. I like the skill check aspect because it allows my younger player and those who do not role play much to achieve the success that their character should. Regarding traps and hidden items. I view these items as having two characteristics: one is their concealment, and the other is their complication. Perception checks address the concealment nature. Is the trap well camouflaged, invisible, or simply screams "Look at me! I'm a trap!" The investigation check defeats the complication. Is the trap a simple, common, complex, or Gordian design? The perception skill allows pretty much anyone to discover a trap or secret door. But the investigation skill, which is hardly employed, allows for a designated "Thelma" in the Scooby Doo gang to solve the problem. While a secret door may be opened after a successful check (found the secret button, pulled the right rope, tilted the right book, etc), a locked and trap chest is a different story. Then the thieves tools enables a character to employ a bonus (if proficient) to disarm the trap if it is complicated, while a simple mechanism could be simple turned off by anyone once it is discovered. [/QUOTE]

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