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Perception vs Investigate
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<blockquote data-quote="GreenTengu" data-source="post: 6943323" data-attributes="member: 6777454"><p>I don't think anyone can blame players for ignoring Investigation and the whole Intelligence attribute in general. It really is a pretty worthless attribute unless you are a Wizard or one of the wizard-y subclasses that uses it to determine your spell DCs. And even then, if you avoid spells that even have DCs then you don't actually need it at all.</p><p></p><p>I mean, really... you are going to demand that one player whose attacks and abilities don't in any other way interact with the Wisdom or Intelligence scores have to raise both of them in order to do the most basic effective thing... on top of naturally raising their Constitution so they can survive being hit since they are forced to be in melee and don't have ACs any higher than the Fighter, but do have lower HPs... and, naturally, it is expected their Charisma be high as well because they need to make those Bluff checks in addition to those Stealth checks in order to deal their extra damage in combat, which is the only way they are holding up their part of the game.</p><p></p><p>I mean, sure-- it is one thing to hopefully make it so that all attributes CAN be used resulting in different effects, but it is another expecting that one player's stats be 14+ across the board in order to functionally play their chosen roll.</p><p></p><p></p><p>The only way I can see it making sense for the whole "find the trap", "figure out the trap" and "disarm the trap" being entirely separate rolls is if you expect you are going to get more than one character involved in dealing with it. But traditionally this has all fallen onto the shoulders of a single character.</p><p></p><p>Although one of the nice things about 5th edition is that it doesn't even have to be a Rogue who handles all the traps. I could easily imagine a Dwarven Engineer or a Tinker Gnome of nearly any class being even better at taking apart traps and locks and the like than your average standard Thief. And, by all means, you can have those skills on those characters without them having to be Rogues.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="GreenTengu, post: 6943323, member: 6777454"] I don't think anyone can blame players for ignoring Investigation and the whole Intelligence attribute in general. It really is a pretty worthless attribute unless you are a Wizard or one of the wizard-y subclasses that uses it to determine your spell DCs. And even then, if you avoid spells that even have DCs then you don't actually need it at all. I mean, really... you are going to demand that one player whose attacks and abilities don't in any other way interact with the Wisdom or Intelligence scores have to raise both of them in order to do the most basic effective thing... on top of naturally raising their Constitution so they can survive being hit since they are forced to be in melee and don't have ACs any higher than the Fighter, but do have lower HPs... and, naturally, it is expected their Charisma be high as well because they need to make those Bluff checks in addition to those Stealth checks in order to deal their extra damage in combat, which is the only way they are holding up their part of the game. I mean, sure-- it is one thing to hopefully make it so that all attributes CAN be used resulting in different effects, but it is another expecting that one player's stats be 14+ across the board in order to functionally play their chosen roll. The only way I can see it making sense for the whole "find the trap", "figure out the trap" and "disarm the trap" being entirely separate rolls is if you expect you are going to get more than one character involved in dealing with it. But traditionally this has all fallen onto the shoulders of a single character. Although one of the nice things about 5th edition is that it doesn't even have to be a Rogue who handles all the traps. I could easily imagine a Dwarven Engineer or a Tinker Gnome of nearly any class being even better at taking apart traps and locks and the like than your average standard Thief. And, by all means, you can have those skills on those characters without them having to be Rogues. [/QUOTE]
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