Permanency: Inconsistent?

[taliesin15]

IMC, we are using 3.0, and one of the players has pointed out that the rules on Permanency seem illogical--why, specifically, can one only cast Darkvision on oneself permanently, when the spell Darkvision's target is touch, not personal?

 

[Jack Simth]

A spell with a range of touch can be cast on the caster, no problem.

 

[phindar]

As long as the caster is willing to touch himself. Which most people are.

 

[HeavenShallBurn]

As long as the caster is willing to touch himself. Which most people are.

And he wins the thread By an... err, ... appendage

 

[frankthedm]

why, specifically, can one only cast Darkvision on oneself permanently, when the spell Darkvision's target is touch, not personal?

Because Permanency's limitations are based on game balance, NOT just the spell becoming permanent.

Slottless goggles of darkvision cost 24000gp {base 12000gp http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#gogglesofNight ]

Plus it allows the caster to give himself darkvision without the rest of the party being able to brow-beat him into sacking more XP to give the entire party darkvision.

 

[taliesin15]

Clearly, the caster of Darkvision can touch himself (ahem), but the point it doesn't it seem contradictory that said Wizard can't cast this Permanently on a fellow party member? If its too powerful of a spell to cast on another Permanently, why in the name of Odin's ravens isn't the target of the spell Personal instead of Touch in the first place?

 

[phindar]

It doesn't seem that powerful a spell in the sense that if the party's wizard is ready to toss it out with Permancy for everybody, they're at a level where they've probably figured out how to deal with normal darkness. (In another system, it'd just be a pair of night vision goggles.)

 

[Drowbane]

Because Permanency's limitations are based on game balance, NOT just the spell becoming permanent.

Slottless goggles of darkvision cost 24000gp {base 12000gp http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#gogglesofNight ]

Plus it allows the caster to give himself darkvision without the rest of the party being able to brow-beat him into sacking more XP to give the entire party darkvision.

Which just adds fuels to my theory that Non-Gamers must be responsible for half the crap WotC churns out. 12k to be able to see like a Dwarf... or almost as well as a 1st lvl Warlock? pfft.

Edit: I have no qualms about Darkvision + Permanency being Caster only... just that anyone in thier right mind would consider a Darkvision item to be worth any more than 5k.

 

[1500run]

Clearly, the caster of Darkvision can touch himself (ahem), but the point it doesn't it seem contradictory that said Wizard can't cast this Permanently on a fellow party member? If its too powerful of a spell to cast on another Permanently, why in the name of Odin's ravens isn't the target of the spell Personal instead of Touch in the first place?

take a look at the average level of the spells that Permanency says are caster-only.
now take a look at the average level of the spells that Permanency says can be cast on others.

right there, that's your answer. darkvision is not too powerful a spell to cast on others, so there's no need to make it have a range of personal, but apparently the designers thought that it was too powerful to make permanent on others. also, yes, like FtDM said, it might make it easy for other party members to browbeat the po' wizard into spending all his hard-earned XP on making them see in the dark, when the selfish bastards could just buy some goggles instead.

if you don't like it, ask the DM to house-rule it. hell, a good DM house-rules about half the book anyway.

 

[kreynolds]

Personally, I don't think the decision made about the published content regarding spells affected by permanency on the caster or on others had to do with average levels, but more about not having the permanency spell step on the magic items. By limiting permanency, the magic items are still "special".

I have a lot of fun watching my players use permanency. Very few spells are off-limits with this for me, so I just follow the obvious formula of spell level x 500xp.