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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Greenfield" data-source="post: 7174626" data-attributes="member: 6669384">Will a 1 Int warrior know friend from foe, or will he attack anything, like a rabid dog?And if people back off and just walk around him, will he remember that he was supposed to guard that door?  Or that chest?  Will he remember how to use or even hold a sword or axe?He's reduced to the lowest of animal Intelligence.  His ability to damage others, or to defend himself, is all but gone.  Walk out of the room for five minutes, come back and go about your business.  He won't remember who you are, or that he was fighting you.  Toss him something tasty and he'll leave you alone.  (Clue:  IRL most fish have a "linear memory" span of about six seconds.  That's why they strike at a lure, get hurt when they slip the hook, then go right back to striking at the same lure.)He's a house plant.  Water him, let him have some sun and he's happy.As for the prior post:  I do deal with STR increases the same way I deal with INT increases.  Both apply going forward only.  You are the one who wants to treat them differently.Some feats, like Power Attack, have a stat minimum.  Would you allow a PC to change feats after the fact, because they now meet a minimum they didn't before?  You seem to want to do that for INT and Skills, why not STR and Feats?Increased INT's effects are immediately apparent:  Higher bonuses for INT based skills, more difficult Saves v the higher INT caster's spells, more bonus spell slots.  All applies immediately or, at latest, when they do their next spell preparation.  As for Bestow Curse, the question you refuse to address:  Stat drains and stat bumps are opposite sides of the same coin.  Any rule addressing the effects of one *must* address the effects of the other.You say there are "corner cases" for any rule, that no rule hits the table unchallenged.  Let me bounce one of our house rules off of you.  ************Because we observed that combat types tend to get left behind at higher levels, with spell casters dominating play, we decided to change the iterative attacks rule,  Instead of getting additional attacks every five points, we made it every four.Secondary attacks happen when BAB is five, not six, and are taken at a penalty of minus four instead of minus five.  Tertiary attacks happen at BAB of nine, not eleven, etc.  This leaves the fighter's power curve the same at lower levels, but about the time spell casters start to get their big-boom AoE spells, the fighter gets his extra attack.  He ends up keeping pace with the spell casters for about three levels more than he does under the standard rule.************ Okay, find the "corner case" on that.  How would someone challenge it?  It's a fundamental rule change that affects all classes, but benefits the high BAB classes the most, particularly at the higher levels.  Find the hole, the inconsistency that can be objected to.Now you say the INT drop will affect my game too, that a Barbarian will suddenly fall out of a tree because he never learned the Climb skill.Please step away from the mirror.  You're talking to me, but looking at yourself.The situation will never occur in my game because I *don't* apply stat bonuses or penalties retroactively.  They only apply going forward.  Skills, once learned, are there for life.  You don't spontaneously lose them when INT drops any more than you spontaneously gain them when INT increases.  INT based skills will have their bonuses changed immediately, but the base skill ranks remain unchanged.Now you sap the guy's Strength and he might fall from the tree, because his STR bonus to Climb isn't there any more, but his base skill ranks remain in place.So, with RAW and only RAW, how do we deal with Intelligence loss? According to RAW, of course:  It affects the number of skills a character can learn as they advance in levels, but that doesn't mean anything until their next level advancement.  It affects bonus spell slots granted by high INT.  It affects the ability bonus to INT based skills.  It affects the Save DC for spells cast by an INT based spell caster.Going forward, only.  If it happened today, it affects today, not yesterday, two weeks or three years ago.  The only spell or ability in the game that can change the past is Wish (or perhaps Miracle), and that only for the preceding six seconds.</blockquote>

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