Permission for OGC?

[HellHound]

Actually, the gentlefolk over at Twin Rose softwear (makers of Campaign Suite) told me that they got a "no" response from one publisher when they asked about using OGC. They laughed and went on their merry way. (You might want to contact Chris for a more detailed version, but he passed that along in the ENworld chat room last week some time)

 

[Inzae]

Permission granted

Thought I'd chime in here after all the various posts and such on the boards.

We have asked permission to OGC material on several occasions and have never recieved anything other than a resounding YES.

And I personally consider it 'asking permission.' Why you might ask. Because I personally feel that whatever anyone pens - no matter the nature or the law - its their work. if they do not want my name or our companies name associated with their imaginative production then I would never, under any circumstances, associate the two. But that is me personally, and I feel this after having worked in academia for 18 years where others' words and thoughts are theirs. - period - dot - the - end.

But as I said we have never been told not to.

Further, I think it is gentlemanly to ask and think it is important to keep it that way. This is too small a community, too tight a market, and too nice a community to start stepping on one anothers toes. Hell, why go to Gen Con if I could not hang out and drink with everyone LOL.

I also think it is in everyone's interest to say yes. We have used a few Necro. monsters in our mods (especially in the upcoming St Anton's Fire) that add great flavor to our adventures. Two things here, it is now easier for us to start using other people's monsters that conform in many respects to what we envision rather than creating our own and adding to the whole mess and heap of monsters out there. Two, it also may boost the sales of Necro's MMs - even if by only 2 copies, well that is two copies that may otherwise never have been purchased (though we would hope it would be more). It may also boost our sales, though I am fairly certain it doesn't work the other way around, but maybe it does.

My only concern with the issue is how to properly cite another author's material. Being academic, I want to do it in the text rather than liscense but am not sure that is OK. I want the readers to know where I got the material.

LOL - when I first sent Steve the edited version of 'St Anton's' i actually noted in the text the book and the page number. Steve told me to quit being an idiot.

Anyway, to those companies that have allowed me to use their material - a resounding thanks, And I should add that everyone (esp Clark/Necro) have been very easy to work with.

Davis
davis@trolllord.com

 

[Morrus]

Actually, the gentlefolk over at Twin Rose softwear (makers of Campaign Suite) told me that they got a "no" response from one publisher when they asked about using OGC. They laughed and went on their merry way.

*shrug*

In that situation, I wouldn't use it. The only time I would go ahead and use it without someone's blessing is if they didn't bother to reply to my email (or if they replied rudely). It's easy enough to make your own material. Why step on toes when you don't have to? I really can't possibly think of a reason other than downright rudeness.

I've asked for, and been given permission to use, OGC on 3 occasions; I've asked for and been given permission to use PI on 2 occasions.

Oh, and I've been asked for, and have given permission to use both OGC and PI on several occasions. But if, such as in the example Monte described, someone wanted to use my OGC for immoral or unethical products (at least those that I found immoral or unethical) I would ask them not to use my OGC. If people using my OGC when I'd rather they didn't started to become a regular issue, I'd stop producing useful OGC; I'd think it was a big shame that I had to make it so they legally couldn't do it in order to bring about a situation where they wouldn't.

I also think it is in everyone's interest to say yes.

Agreed. I've never said no to anyone, and I think it's unlikely that I will ever do so. I'd just like to think that in that rare situation where I did want to say no, the person in question would respect my wishes.

 

[Orcus]

And here is another point.

If a person asks me I have always said yes. And I have helped them in being compliant with the licenses. That is a benefit to them. I help them do their section 15 and any other issues they have and so they know I wont grouse about their use of my OGC and be forced to take action.

If someone wanted to make PrisonRape d20 and wanted to use my OGC and I said "you know, I'd rather you didnt" and they did anyway, that would be their right under the license. But I can guarantee you this: they better get their compliance 100% correct or I will do something about it. And I wont help them get compliant either. If they want to do the "the license allows me to use it" then I will do the "and the license allows me to bust you for it if you do it wrong." But for the record that hasnt even come close to happening so far.

Clark

 

[Jerrid Al-Kundo]

Well, my wife tends to handle courtesy letters, and we've yet to be told "no" (our OGC Coordinator, if you will...).

Details as follow:

We are a fan-site/independant project; Our material isn't aimed for market. Like it? Download it. Don't like it? Ignore it.

We have gotten replies from Mystic Eye Games, Neatherland Games, Sword & Sorcery Studios and Bastion Press; All good there.

We have never heard back from Mongoose; Still waiting.

I have directly asked board members (whom aren't even Publishers) to use material they've posted; All good there.

My wife is about to send such letters to Malhavoc, AEG, Green Ronin, Avalanche, Chainmail Bikini and Athas.org.

I must admit to using material from FNCC's Netbook of Feats without such a letter...

I'll fix that situation, though, promise.

While a fan site, we aren't as bound to the terms as for-profit publishers. However, we try our best to retain some degree of courtesy and respect to help assure that fan-sites retain this flexibility.

In addition, we often make changes to this material to fit the specific flavor of the setting. As such, while credit for the material is given, we also refer the reader back to the original source for the "default" conditions, prereqs, effects, flavor, etc., stating clearly that what they are viewing might not be entirely what was originally printed.

Anyhow, it just seemed the proper way to do it, being a fan project and all...

 

[Frilf]

Frankly, I would think it flattering for someone else to want to use Silverthorne's OGC in their works. I really believe that most other publishers out there have similar feelings and would be very agreeable to letting others use their OGC, as well, as long as it isn't for something disgusting/immoral/unethical/illegal. A courteous request for "permission" to use someone else's OGC is just good etiquette and promotes good will between publishers, anyway -- so why not do it?

BTW (only slightly off topic at hand), I have sent several emails to Clark/Orcus about getting going in this biz and he has been nothing but helpful. I have also corresponded via email with several other publishers and have found them to be the same way. IMHO, most folks in d20 are doing it because they love gaming and want to further to hobby.

Anyhoo, just my $.02 - anyone else feel this way?

Ian J.

 

[jaerdaph]

Actually, I can think of an example where it doesn't even violate good sense. Say you come to me and let me know, as a courtesy, that you're going to be using my OGL material in a game about abusing kids. In such a case, I would try to convince you not to do that.

Funny you should mention that, Monte. My father (an intellectual property lawyer for IBM for over 30 years, now retired) and I recently had a conversation about the OGL along similar lines. He's not a gamer but he is interested, at least academically, in the whole open gaming concept. One of the potential weaknesses he saw in the OGL involved the copyright notice (section 15). Since you have to list the names of companies (or individuals) when you complete that section, a company's reputation could theoretically be at risk if their OGC is used in a questionable product, like one that centered around abusing children. For example, if someone were to publish a d20 game featuring PC child pornographers which included OGC from Malhavoc Press, your company's name would be printed in that product under section 15. Do you have a right to protest, even sue, on those grounds? Quite possibly if you could prove that your company was adversely affected by having its name in that product.

Anyhow, it really is interesting stuff to consider.

 

[Lizard]

For example, if someone were to publish a d20 game featuring PC child pornographers which included OGC from Malhavoc Press, your company's name would be printed in that product under section 15. Do you have a right to protest, even sue, on those grounds? Quite possibly if you could prove that your company was adversely affected by having its name in that product.

Anyhow, it really is interesting stuff to consider.

This is, really, like asking if Microsoft can sue if their software is used to make child-porn images. The very nature of the OGL means that you can't control what people choose to do with your work. As Orcus noted, though, you CAN make life very difficult for someone if you put your mind to it...here's a lot of "i"s to cross and "t"s to dot in any large OGC project.

Of course, if the work is a PDF or non-commercial, curing the breach in the period alotted is trivial.

One thing which Phil Zimmermann said he just had to learn to live with was that his work (PGP) was going to be used by terrorists, child pornographers, IRS auditors, and other unsavory types. He accepts that, because he felt a far greater good was served by making it open and letting anyone use it.

 

[jaerdaph]

This is, really, like asking if Microsoft can sue if their software is used to make child-porn images.

Not really, if you don't include Microsoft's name on the image.

Edit: added "don't"

 

[Eosin the Red]

On the whole law suit issue -

Mess with the bull and get the horns. Anybody can file a suit, and god help you if they have money to burn and you don't.

It is in your best interest to make sure that no one feels threatened or taken advantage of when you use their material.

I am sure one of the leagle eagles could elaborate, if necessary.

but what do I know? Just a grunt, doin my job.