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Pathfinder 2E PF 2 Demo- Curiosity wins out

JeffB

Legend
So I broke out my old PFB1 pawns, an old map from 4E and ran a few combats with the sample characters/adventure that Paizo offers HERE. Utilizing the Ogre encounter (only)

I'm well aware it's not like running a full game session or three, but I ran it tactically sound for the most part and with the old OD&D " Judge " mentality

Thoughts-

1) Deadly. But the Cleric is pretty potent to help keep PC's from dying. Perhaps too much at 1st level (30ft range on stabilize for example- IDR what it was like in PFBB/PF1, so maybe this is not much of a change). I ran with the 4 classic PCs. I do believe that with 5 or 6 PCs you'd certainly want to up the challenge. The PC's dished out some serious damage on the Ogre if they got the jump on him in initiative. I rolled him dead last in the initiative order for the first run, and he was down to 1/3 HP by the time his turn came up.

2) Doesn't feel like 4E combat at all to me-not necc a good or bad thing- its just not the same. It does feel more tactical and mobile than PF1 at low levels (Thanks to the 3 action economy and no AoO for everyone I believe). Not to mention- with that +12 initial attack bonus an Ogre will eff you up real quick if you stay close to it . Valeros died in the 1st run- Ogre hook-tripped him, and then critted him while he was prone- that extra D10 on the crit from the deadly trait is a real SOB. Meri went to DYING once and then hovering around 1-3HP subsequently- some bad rolls on the Ogres part saved her from the same fate.

3) Having to run everything- it was a little fiddly with the PCs (Like for example- Kyra's scimitar weapon properties- easy to forget this kind of thing). Probably not a good game for newbies- but I could see this scratching the itch for 5E groups looking for a bit "more" and placing quality over quantity with combat. Fewer but more important encounters (which frankly is the way I like to run things). I don't know what the PF2 CRB expects for "encounters per day", but I hope they are not anywhere near what 5E expects.

4) The GM side of the equation was pretty smooth- though to be fair- it's a pretty simple monster to run- however it did not feel like a bag of hit points (cough:5Eogresandettins:cough) because it had just that little "extra" in the monster stat block- the trip attack, the deadly trait on crits, etc. Seems small, but can make things much more interesting.

5) I liked the three action economy. I think this system makes minis and grids more tolerable (for me) as characters are just able to move around more (if they want) and do a bit more right from the get go. This helped a bit with "dynamics". Characters could pull a different weapon, stride and attack. Or move into range, cast a spell and get the hell out of dodge. No need to wait until 5th level to get that second attack, etc.

6) I like the +10 crit system. I'd look forward to seeing it work in the exploration mode with Skill checks, etc

I plan on running this for my Son/his friends when they are back from College during Spring break- until then I think I will run some more tests at higher levels/more complicated combats.. Anyone know where there are some higher level pre-gens online?
 

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pcrotteau

Explorer
The other option is the Pathfinder Society Quests they released. All are around the 1 hour mark but feature more of the ruleset: exploration, recall knowledge, some rp.

There is one adventure for the 5th level pregens, #1-00 Origin of the open road. There are 1 or two more complicated combats there.
 

Schmoe

Adventurer
Interesting observations, thanks for posting them. I'd really like to find the opportunity to give PF2 a try, but I don't think it would be a good time to try converting our existing 3e game that's been running ~2 years. Everyone is still having fun with it and enjoying the mechanics of the system, so I won't fix it if it ain't broke. Then there is the game I've been running for my kids, which has recently been through 2 near-TPKs (one due to a Deck of Many Things!), and changing things up wouldn't really break continuity. But they are young enough that I think trying to learn another system wouldn't be that great, as they are just starting to get comfortable with the current system.

Ah well. Patience...
 

JeffB

Legend
ME said:
I plan on running this for my Son/his friends when they are back from College during Spring break-

His comment after looking over the PDF of the pre-gens and the rules summary page I sent him and his buddy:

"Dad, please don't assign me homework at break"

He cracked me up. I get it. Totally not interested- too crunchy.

Will have to figure something else out to get in some PF2 experience.
 


JeffB

Legend
I can revert it. The edit history is saved?

Nope, nothing in the draft save/floppy disk over there --->

Its not a big deal. I just went over playing the demo solo, PC's vs. Monsters. Overall enjoyed it. Deadly for PC's Enjoyed the +10/-10. And that I would like to run a full session (which I had planned to do with my Son, thus the update)

Thanks though.
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
Nope, nothing in the draft save/floppy disk over there --->

Its not a big deal. I just went over playing the demo solo, PC's vs. Monsters. Overall enjoyed it. Deadly for PC's Enjoyed the +10/-10. And that I would like to run a full session (which I had planned to do with my Son, thus the update)

Thanks though.
No, I can revert it. The edit history is saved. The question mark was simply whether you wanted me to?
 




CapnZapp

Legend
Not sure if this a new or old thread, so I might have said this already: that Ogre encounter is pretty rough.

It's from a small scenario specifically designed to sell the game. Yet it pits the 1st level heroes against a monster who easily instagibbs any hero on a critical*. Not just "knocks unconscious" but outright kills. Regardless of that hero's precautions.

Not sure I see the wisdom in that...

*) the pregen heroes in the module itself have 15, 16, 17 or 19 hp and thus die instantly on taking as little as 30 damage. An Ogre deals (1d10+7)x2+1d10 damage on a crit, which easily amounts to more than 30 points (its maximum is 44). This doesn't only happen on rolling a natural 20 in Pathfinder 2 - anytime the Ogre beats the hero's AC by ten points or more its a critical. With a +12 attack modifier against a typical AC of 17 that happens on a roll of 15, 16, 17, 18, 19 and 20.

I don't mind a regular game pitting a fresh set of heroes against a lethal monster. But this is specifically a demo game you run to entice new players. Not sure getting turned into bloody pulp without having done anything wrong is the best way to achieve that...

Normally a single foe two levels above yours is a reasonable challenge. A Moderate one in fact, which is nothing to concern ourselves with. But there's nothing normal about this encounter. The Ogre packs one of the most brutal level 3 criticals, and the heroes are at their most fragile at first level. I submit the dev didn't think things through here. It would have made a lot more sense to feature a fight against a River Drake or a Lion or something with a significantly lower chance of dealing ~35 damage in a single blow. Not to mention using two creatures instead of one (which would remove the instagibb risk entirely), I dunno an Orc Brute riding a Warg maybe.
 

JeffB

Legend
Not sure if this a new or old thread, so I might have said this already: that Ogre encounter is pretty rough.

It's an old thread, but when I went to post an update as a new post and quoting a bit from my OP, I accidentally deleted the OP. Nothing else was deleted.

And YES, it's a rough fight. That Ogre is a real mutha.
 


dave2008

Legend
To the OP who was interested in simulated high level play, check out this guy's reports over at the Paizo forums. High level play sounds dramatic and exciting without getting as bogged down as PF1:
interestingly, it appears no where near as deadly as low levels. Typical of D&D, but I was hoping PF2e would correct that. However, everything they fought was below their level, so things may have changed if they fought a higher level monster or two.
 


CapnZapp

Legend
I browsed the thread. It isn't as clear as you'd like but I think there's only one monster above their level in the fights included.

There sure are a lot of at-level foes though. Level 20 monsters, that is.
 


CapnZapp

Legend
Not sure I understand this exemple. Did you mean «to» dodge? In 5e you can break up movement with an attack. You can move, cast then pull back.
He means that a PF2 character can potentially move three times her Speed; which is much more mobile than in most other editions. Add that few enemies have attacks of opportunity and you have a new tactic!

Move 35 ft forwards, whack, move 35 ft back - is a perfectly viable build in PF2 against monsters with Speed 30. This steals one action from the monster each round, a much bigger deal than you'd think.

In 5E you can of course also gain Speed 35. But you only get to move it once (if you also want to take a whack), which limits you to:

Move 15 ft forwards, whack, move 20 ft back - significantly less impressive, given how the monster will simply move back within melee, and whale on you just like if you didn't move at all. And likely whack you for free using an Attack of Opportunity as well.

Zapp

PS. Not talking about specialist builds here. The way Speed interacts with the Action system is a fundamental change in how PF2 works compared to most other editions of D&D games.
 


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