D&D 5E Phandelver Pregen PDF's or Scanns? And the state of the online Support.

[Klaus]

I'm sorry but I don't share the positive Attitude about this. If I buy an Adventure than I expect to get everything that can help me GM it, including easy to use Pregens and Player-Maps if possible (like PDF's). After all I pay money for Adventures to make my life as easy as possible.

This has the bad aftertaste of the Videogaming Industry where nowadays you buy a Product and then they hold content in front of your nose ... "Buy this if you want the FULL experience".

And I'm sorry, but I don't understand this. When you buy the adventure you *do* get everything you need to run it: pre-gens, stats, maps (that you can scan and print out, if you want to). Full, print-resolution map images are a luxury, you don't *need* them to run. But for those who *want* to run, they're are a) easy to acquire, and b) CHEAP (really, it's US$1.25 per map!). Not to mention that this ammount bypasses the publisher and goes *straight* to the person who made them!

People are looking at the US$17 price tag, but that's for a collection of 14 high-resolution maps, both keyed and unkeyed! For US$7 you can get all unkeyed maps in a big enough resolution to print them out as battlemaps! US$7 is less than the discount I got for pre-ordering the Starter Set at Amazon, so I'm getting more stuff for the same price, and I get to help a great artist, who also happens to be great guy, and an EN World member.

 

[Wrathamon]

But the price is too high. The entire pack should be $4.99 to $9.99. At the same time, WotC should promote the availability of these maps to help increase the customer base.

I don't think wotc should promote this. It makes it look like they are profiting from something they use to provide for free.

I think they will still provide these maps at some point for free just a lower resolution. I also think it is very cool for the artist to be able to sell them.

Price point? That is what the artist determines and you the market are willing to pay. I think 17 bucks is a lot and wouldnt pay it, but 2 to 3 dollars? I might

 

[Jeff Carlsen]

And I'm sorry, but I don't understand this. When you buy the adventure you *do* get everything you need to run it: pre-gens, stats, maps (that you can scan and print out, if you want to). Full, print-resolution map images are a luxury, you don't *need* them to run. But for those who *want* to run, they're are a) easy to acquire, and b) CHEAP (really, it's US$1.25 per map!). Not to mention that this ammount bypasses the publisher and goes *straight* to the person who made them!

People are looking at the US$17 price tag, but that's for a collection of 14 high-resolution maps, both keyed and unkeyed! For US$7 you can get all unkeyed maps in a big enough resolution to print them out as battlemaps! US$7 is less than the discount I got for pre-ordering the Starter Set at Amazon, so I'm getting more stuff for the same price, and I get to help a great artist, who also happens to be great guy, and an EN World member.

$1.25 per map is not cheap, particularly when half of the maps are the exact same file with some layers turned off. Add to that the knowledge that the artist was already paid for the creation of these maps, and most of them will be used only once.

Now, I'm not arguing that the artist doesn't have the right to sell them at this price point, or that I don't want them. I wouldn't be annoyed if I didn't. Only that they don't feel like a good value right now.

 

[Klaus]

$1.25 per map is not cheap,

You and I have very different definitions of cheap, it seems.

 

[doctorhook]

Going back to economics, Klaus and Jeff have significantly different willingness to pay at this price. There's no wrong perspective here, but there is a benefit-maximizing one. (Unfortunately, it's impossible to know which one that is without more information from Mike.)

I bought seven maps from Mike's site. Overall, I don't regret that, but it cost me $8.75 to do so, which adds about 33% to my total cost of running the adventure--that's significant.

 

[KentDT]

I don't think wotc should promote this. It makes it look like they are profiting from something they use to provide for free.

I think they will still provide these maps at some point for free just a lower resolution. I also think it is very cool for the artist to be able to sell them.

Price point? That is what the artist determines and you the market are willing to pay. I think 17 bucks is a lot and wouldnt pay it, but 2 to 3 dollars? I might

For free? Maps and art was provided as part of the DDI which I paid for in subscription. Granted each piece of art or map did not have an individual price but it was never "free".

For my 2 cents (or perhaps more as the case may be ) I think that wotc should promote ALL their artists work and perhaps help the price come down a bit with an expanded customer base. I haven't bought the maps myself, but I like the idea of helping to support the artist so I'll go over soon and get the unkeyed bundle.
My dream would be a bundled subscription like DDI together with an "iTunes" like store where individual or smaller bundles could be purchased a la carte. The store should include all art and maps, all digital files (or maybe that would just be part of Morningstar), newly launched Dragon and Dungeon, and 3rd party both professional and amateur produced material under whatever license they come up with. All in one place and easily purchased.

 

[Baumi]

And I'm sorry, but I don't understand this. When you buy the adventure you *do* get everything you need to run it: pre-gens, stats, maps (that you can scan and print out, if you want to). Full, print-resolution map images are a luxury, you don't *need* them to run. But for those who *want* to run, they're are a) easy to acquire, and b) CHEAP (really, it's US$1.25 per map!). Not to mention that this ammount bypasses the publisher and goes *straight* to the person who made them!

People are looking at the US$17 price tag, but that's for a collection of 14 high-resolution maps, both keyed and unkeyed! For US$7 you can get all unkeyed maps in a big enough resolution to print them out as battlemaps! US$7 is less than the discount I got for pre-ordering the Starter Set at Amazon, so I'm getting more stuff for the same price, and I get to help a great artist, who also happens to be great guy, and an EN World member.

I don't have a Scanner and while I do have a Credit Card, many friends I know don't (it's not that accepted here in Europe). So it's not that guaranteed you can easily provide yourself with Pre-Gen Copies or the Maps, even if Money is not a Problem. Also the fact that theses Maps would cost me more than the Adventure itself certainly makes it expensive.

Anyway, the Maps are not that big deal for me personally, but not being able to print copies of the Pregens (I certainly don't want to use the only copy that is included in the box) is a Problem and that you cannot buy the Product as a PDF is a worrying sign for the future of the D&D books (I rarely use books at the table anymore, tablets are much more convinient for me and they are easily cleaned from food-stains).

 

[wedgeski]

I don't think wotc should promote this. It makes it look like they are profiting from something they use to provide for free.

I don't think we ever got player-facing digital maps, did we? Maybe on one or two occasions, but not as a rule. Maybe things changed in the very latter days of 4E DDI.

I'm really in two minds about this. On the one hand, I like the idea that the artist retains the right to sell these for himself. This just seems right to me on most levels. Plus, I really only need to buy the un-keyed versions. It's a matter of 60 seconds in MS Paint to put those key tokens back on.

On the other hand, in this day and age I think digital map downloads should be provided as a matter of course with adventures. I do, however, understand the other modern reality which is that, if you do so, you're doing it for free, for everybody, whether they bought the adventure or not. Put them behind whatever pay-wall you want, they *will* escape. We're still waiting to see what the modern WotC's position is on free content (Basic D&D PDF not withstanding!).

On the other other hand, it also comes down to cost. The Starter Set is good value. If I add 7 or 8 dollars to the price I paid, it's still good(-ish) value. So, if future adventures are similarly good VFM, dropping some extra cash on the maps will not be un-palatable.

 

[mikeschley]

A few words about my D&D Starter Set maps

So I've been lurking in the forums recently and thinking about some of the questions and concerns raised over the D&D Starter Set maps I've made available. Though I can't speak to WotC's strategy for digital products, I can hopefully cast some light on my own thinking and provide context for D&D fans who may be thinking about purchasing work from my site.


Selling the work:
As to the general topic of selling artwork to fans; freelance artists (especially ones in the game and comic fields) have relied on sales of original works and copies to the public as supplemental income forever. Digital copies of map artwork fall into the same realm but have the added bonus of being super useful as supplements to gameplay. The best part is that since the artist's income is stabilized and supported by these sales, they have the time to create top-notch work and experiment with ways to create a better game play experience.


Artist/Publisher Relationship:
Due to narrow margins, the game publishing field relies almost exclusively on contracted freelance artists to provide visual content for their products. As a result, professional artists in this field do not have the luxury of employer provided benefits, job/income security, unemployment coverage, or employer paid FICA contributions. Combine this with the terribly tight budgets of game industry publishers and a limited number of companies that can afford nominally competitive rates, and the result is an environment that many other artists would run screaming from. This is what it is and often results in a limited pool of talent willing to remain in the field for any length of time. Artists must find a way to make their practices sustainable if they hope to continue working. It's simple math; if you can't pay the rent, you look for a different job. For myself, supplemental income from downloadable maps and physical print sales are the only way I can continue to put the time and energy into the work that I do. Without these sources of revenue I would probably need to seriously think about a career change.


Tagless maps:
A while ago, I began offering versions of my maps with tags and secrets removed in response to a clear need expressed by many DM's looking to use the artwork in VTT or printed tabletop format. Many DM's were complaining about the time involved in editing out the non-player info from maps provided by publishers. Since I have the original layered working files, editing them for in game use and making them available to the public is a no-brainer. Sometimes this is as easy as turning off a few layers while other images require a bit of a repaint. Traditional publishers have unfortunately been a little slow to provide these resources. This may have to do with the gameplay model or could simply be a lack of time/motivation on their part. I can't really speculate on this though as your guess is as good as mine.


Price:
At an à la carte price of $1.25 each, you can purchase the entire collection of my player version maps from the Starter Set for less than a trip to McDonalds. Plus, they won't give you diabetes or that slightly greasy sense of shame that comes with an extra large order of fries. The option of purchasing the DM versions of the maps in addition to the tagless player versions is primarily geared to folks that haven't picked up the adventure yet or simply want a great looking screen copy of the original artwork for their own. If you only want one or two specific maps instead of the whole set, you can do that too. Considering the resolution of the images, I think the price is about right. I know opinions on this vary and I am currently looking at coupon and package pricing options.


Since this post is getting a bit long winded, I'll stop here and just mention that I LOVE making maps and environments for RPG's and try to do the absolute best job that I can with every project I work on. If you like the artwork and are thinking about purchasing anything from my site, I can tell you that your payment goes directly to the creator "me" and helps keep a roof over my families head the lights on in the studio. So far, the response to my offering of downloads has been wonderful and I can't tell you how much I appreciate the support and kind words I've received so far. Criticism is welcome too and I try to respond as quickly as possible to constructive suggestions.


Best,


Mike

Mike Schley Illustration & Design
www.mikeschley.zenfolio.com
https://twitter.com/schley

 

[wedgeski]

Hey [MENTION=37399]mikeschley[/MENTION], thanks for taking the time to post! Your work is top-notch and I'm happy to drop a few dollars to help both you and my players have a better life!