[PHB] Divine Favor and Righteous Might Official Spell Changes

[Pinotage]

Divine Favor - yeah, I agree there. +6 on all rolls is far too much for a 1st level spell.

Righteous Might - my big problem here is that is breaks down on internal consistency. Any creature going from medium size to large size gains +8 Str and +4 Con. Why does Righteous Might not give that? You still increase to large, don't you? :\

Pinotage

 

[Gort]

Pinotage, if that was the case where spells are concerned, Enlarge Person woul be a lot better.

 

[Thanee]

(@PS: Yeah, that's right, HD is not a good limit, but 2x CL in HD is even worse! CR is certainly even better. Or HD+LA.)

Bye
Thanee

 

[Pinotage]

Pinotage, if that was the case where spells are concerned, Enlarge Person woul be a lot better.

Oh, sure. I'm just saying that it's a little strange that you change to large size and don't get all the benefits of said size. Where's the reasoning behind that, other than 'it's magic!' Enlarge Person, Righteous Might and Animal Growth all fall into that category.

Pinotage

 

[Arthedain]

To change Divine Favor is ok, I guess, but to 'nerf' Rightous Might while leaving Animal Growth as it is is beyond me. I'll admit I haven't seen Animal Growth in play, but given that it affects several animals, and a duration of 1min/level, I don't think it's any worse than Rightous Might (pre-errata).

 

[shilsen]

To change Divine Favor is ok, I guess, but to 'nerf' Rightous Might while leaving Animal Growth as it is is beyond me. I'll admit I haven't seen Animal Growth in play, but given that it affects several animals, and a duration of 1min/level, I don't think it's any worse than Rightous Might (pre-errata).

If by "worse" you mean "weaker", I have to agree that Animal Growth is not any worse than Righteous Might, and I'd say it's stronger. Righteous Might greatly improves the offensive capability of a single cleric. Animal Growth does the same for the wildshaped druid, his animal companion and the bunch of creatures he just summoned with Summon Nature's Ally. Nasty is an understatement.

 

[ruleslawyer]

Nah, divine power isn't really broken. The +6 Str is an enhancement bonus, so it doesn't stack with other buff spells or items. The temp hp are nice, but don't really make that huge a difference. What's more useful is the BAB adjustment, and both div favor and righteous might can outdo that at the top end.

See, the problem I see, hong, is that the fact that DF and RM can "outdo" DP is sorta beside the point, since the BAB buff from DP stacks with every other buff out there except for Tenser's transformation. It's also the fact that BAB is a distinctive feature of the fighter classes; the only other way to duplicate it is by losing your spellcasting ability. Now that Divine Metamagic, Persistent Spell, and/or Improved Spell Capacity are out there, DP can give clerics access to full BAB a good chunk of the time. And honestly, I'd say that makes the cleric a bit too much better than a "secondary" fighter. But that's just IMHO...

shilsen: Why not just rule that wildshape doesn't grant type? That (and Natural Spell) seems to be the root of several druid-related balance problems.

 

[rangerjohn]

Ok, everybody keeps complaining about divine favor because it is first level. How would people feel about advanced versions of the spell? Ala restoration, greater magic weapon, magic circle vs evil, protection from element, etc.

 

[LazarusLong42]

I don't like the change to RM... that makes for a very weak 5th-level spell. I think a better change would have been to make it a non-personal range spell. Sure, casting it on yourself is great... but it'll do even more damage in the hands of the fighter or the barbarian, don't you think? But hey, that's just my thought...

 

[hong]

See, the problem I see, hong, is that the fact that DF and RM can "outdo" DP is sorta beside the point, since the BAB buff from DP stacks with every other buff out there except for Tenser's transformation.

Meh. All it is, is +5 to attacks at the top end assuming you didn't pick up a few fighter levels somewhere along the way. Both DF and RM (unnerfed) also stack with everything else, and give you more besides.

It's also the fact that BAB is a distinctive feature of the fighter classes;

You might or might not get an additional iterative attack at a penalty. There's more to the fighter classes' schtick than just BAB.