PHB II Dragon Shaman - Power Level

[Gold Roger]

I used to treat incarnum that way.

"Oh, it's mechanically all sound, but the flavor simply sucks"

After taking a step back and reevaluating I've found my own flavor and am happy with it thereafter.

Coming up with new mechanics is way harder than coming up with fluff, so I'm happy to be delivered innovative crunch even if the fluff is a bit weak.

My only concern with the dragon shaman is that the breath, it's one and only offensive ability, may be to weak.

 

[Psychic Warrior]

After a first read through (only got my PHB 2 yesterday) I like the class. Seems to be average power-wise (the only thing I could see is upping its breath weapon with some bonus Metabreath feats from Draconomicon and maybe increasing how often its aura bonus increases). I, personally, liked the idea of a class dedicated to the worship/veneration of dragons as it fits nicely with my Scarred Lands cmapaigns (at one time the Scarred Lands were ruled by the Dragon kings and there is still an enitre continent that is basically the dragons playground). Extra 'fluff' is rarely needed for me as I tend to make any class I find interesting part of my game worlds.

 

[MadMaxim]

I agree with the others who have said it makes for a good support class. It's auras made me think of it as a another kind of Marshal (which is also an excellent support class) but with a little healing and breath weapon thrown in for good measure.

 

[Felon]

*shrug* When they give us lots of fluff we complain bitterly.

Yep. Tons of complaints about space being "wasted" on fluff on these boards. Except when there isn't fluff, then folks complain about that.

The dragon shaman is a support class. The terms "underpowered", "overpowered", "weak", etc. are deceptive and often flat-out incorrect ways to discuss a class that isn't supposed to be an artillery-packing killing machine.

Comparing the breath weapon to the warlock's eldritch blast, for instance, is not going to provide an accurate comparison. The warlock is specifically designed to have "selfish" powers that don't aid allies. Of course his mian offense will be stronger. That's the opposite of the dragon shaman.

I would say it's more valid to compare the DS to other support classes, such as the bard, marshal, healer, and of course the cleric. You have to look at how much stronger a party is made with them on board, not evaluate their personal power alone.

 

[Vanye]

Sometimes things just don't fit. Unlike Dragon Shaman, I actually want to include the hexblade in my game. I have yet to come up with a good flavor justification for their existence as a base class, however.

In my upcoming FR game, I'm basing the hexblades as being primarily of 2 types:
1) in the Demonlands region (Impiltur, Narfell, The Great Dale), there have been lots of demons and heavy demonic influences over the last two millenia. Traffic with otherworldly powers has been fairly common over the centuries, so eventually the taint of it manifested itself in some people, who eventually managed to train it consistently into ...the hexblade.

2) Some people are just blessed by Beshaba, the goddess of bad luck, to be workers of ill luck, and through dreams or training by her priesthood, have developed a tradition of hexes...

Don't think you run an FR campaign, but maybe they'll help spark an idea or three?

 

[Psion]

In my upcoming FR game, I'm basing the hexblades as being primarily of 2 types:
1) in the Demonlands region (Impiltur, Narfell, The Great Dale), there have been lots of demons and heavy demonic influences over the last two millenia. Traffic with otherworldly powers has been fairly common over the centuries, so eventually the taint of it manifested itself in some people, who eventually managed to train it consistently into ...the hexblade.

2) Some people are just blessed by Beshaba, the goddess of bad luck, to be workers of ill luck, and through dreams or training by her priesthood, have developed a tradition of hexes...

Don't think you run an FR campaign, but maybe they'll help spark an idea or three?

Actually, you sort of did. The above won't quite fit my game -- it's not FR, and I don't do base classes for one deity.

That said, I have been toying with the idea of a "plague of curses" as a backplot for the river of worlds. It could be that survivors of this plague somehow master the ability to channel this bad juju.

Potential there. Potential...

 

[Elephant]

Yep. Tons of complaints about space being "wasted" on fluff on these boards. Except when there isn't fluff, then folks complain about that.

The dragon shaman is a support class. The terms "underpowered", "overpowered", "weak", etc. are deceptive and often flat-out incorrect ways to discuss a class that isn't supposed to be an artillery-packing killing machine.

Comparing the breath weapon to the warlock's eldritch blast, for instance, is not going to provide an accurate comparison. The warlock is specifically designed to have "selfish" powers that don't aid allies. Of course his mian offense will be stronger. That's the opposite of the dragon shaman.

I would say it's more valid to compare the DS to other support classes, such as the bard, marshal, healer, and of course the cleric. You have to look at how much stronger a party is made with them on board, not evaluate their personal power alone.

Interesting take on it. In a 6-person party that already has an Archivist, Hexblade, Fighter, Rogue, and Bard, how much stronger is the party for having a Dragon Shaman along vs. having a Paladin or Cleric along?

 

[Wilphe]

Venerate the perfect taco... snicker...

Suitible domians:

Fire (Obviously)

Travel (For finding the nearest privy and getting there quickly)

 

[blargney the second]

Suitible domians:

Air.

 

[Victim]

The dragon shaman is a support class. The terms "underpowered", "overpowered", "weak", etc. are deceptive and often flat-out incorrect ways to discuss a class that isn't supposed to be an artillery-packing killing machine.

Comparing the breath weapon to the warlock's eldritch blast, for instance, is not going to provide an accurate comparison. The warlock is specifically designed to have "selfish" powers that don't aid allies. Of course his mian offense will be stronger. That's the opposite of the dragon shaman.

I would say it's more valid to compare the DS to other support classes, such as the bard, marshal, healer, and of course the cleric. You have to look at how much stronger a party is made with them on board, not evaluate their personal power alone.

I figured that comparison to the warlock was applicable because both classes have special powers without the normal uses/day restrictions.

It's very true that you have to look at the value to the party on the whole. When you have a non singing bard, without the skill points, then there are most likely problems. The Auras are nice, but they have serious scaling issues. DR 2/Magic is pretty good at 5th level, but DR 5/magic at level 20 sucks. Same thing for the damage shield and fast healing (in combat - out of combat it retains value to reduce healing stress) The damage bonus is untyped. None of these are great support though - they're pretty low level powers. No attack bonus, no extra attacks, no save bonus. And most damning, no ability to run multiple auras at once at high levels. Even with the ability to switch them as a free action and their unlimited use, they're still mostly low level effects.

I'm not sure how they'd stack up healing wise, but the inability to use healing items might be problematic.

Compared to a cleric or buffing arcanist, they offer pretty weak support AND they're non support abilities are nothing special. They have the melee ability of a cleric or bard without their best buffs. Despite customizeable skills, they don't have skill points. Defensively, they aren't bad with good HD (and emphasis on Con), and natural armor.