PHB2 Making Epic Rules Irrelevant?

[Imp]

Eh. The Epic rules are a mess. Some of the systems are pretty nice, but there's no sense of what being an "epic" character means that's fundamentally different from any other character level range. Are they on the crest of the divine, or just fighting bigger monsters? Is there any reason a 12th level character can't be similarly consorting with divine powers (with lower stats)? Whenever I look at that part of the SRD I find myself wistfully remembering the Basic/Expert/Companion/Master set boxes which were a whole lot clearer on that point.

The feats and skill uses are just all over the place.

 

[Fieari]

That's one of the reasons I love Upper Krust... he not only makes Epic and Cosmic level gaming possible, he makes it meaningful by describing what those numbers actually mean...

 

[Stalker0]

Every since 3.5 came out, a lot of the epic feats have been shifted down to nonepic levels. The 20th level barb mighty rage ability used to be an epic feat.

I think as time has gone by people have realized that high level characters, ESPECIALLY fighter types, needed a little more. I think the PHB II is just a good example of that assessment.

 

[Celtavian]

re

I have to agree. They really have to work on the epic magic system. Sure a caster can create a spell that might affect epic level enemies, but the cost is enormous and out of line with that it costs a melee to be equally as effective.

I don't know if Andy Collins was rushed or he used an idea that just didn't work out well in the end. The epic magic system is really unwieldy and gives too small a punch to epic level casters. Not only do they have to expend a huge amount of coin on spells, but they have also have to keep their gear up to survive and be effective against epic level encounters.

I hope they do something with the spell system soon. It just isn't good. They've made so many changes to the games, I really am almost hoping for a 4th edition to consolidate all the new rules, Prcs, and other changes that have been made to the game.

Rule changes like WotCs attempt to eliminate polymorph was really irritating. Looked like it wasn't even well thought out and it certainly wasn't well implemented. Including the change in the errata campaign was bad form. The could have create a document just for the Living Greyhawk campaign, but instead the force this rule change on all players. Just wasn't cool.

 

[Vuron]

ELH is severely flawed. I think basically all that's still redeemable at this point are some of the monsters and the magic items.

I still think the basic assumption is that the average campaign will be retired prior at or prior to 20th level and that epic material is just not an effective use of designer's time when lower level supplements sell better.

 

[Stalker0]

The epic magic system is really unwieldy and gives too small a punch to epic level casters. Not only do they have to expend a huge amount of coin on spells, but they have also have to keep their gear up to survive and be effective against epic level encounters.

You don't have the powergamers I do then The one time I ran an epic game, my player used the ward seed to make himself immune to antimagic field. So he kept one up all of the time, making himself immune to spells. He then used it a little more to make himself immune to damage from most attacks, and just went from there.

 

[airwalkrr]

Divine Metamagic is an epic-level feat. It was just misprinted in CD as a normal one. God, I hate that feat.

 

[Nail]

They really have to work on the epic magic system. Sure a caster can create a spell that might affect epic level enemies, but the cost is enormous and out of line with that it costs a melee to be equally as effective.

Take, for example, the Epic Spell: Ruin

Last session our group (four 20th to 22nd lvl PCs) ran into a pair of Hunefers, which can cast this Epic spell once per day. It would be our first encounter with Epic Magic in the campaign. We were ....."concerned", to say the least.

The hunefers started casting...and then we got our first shock: the spell has a 1 round casting time. "Alright!", we said, "That means we can beat on the hunefers for an entire round, and maybe either disrupt the spell or kill the hunefer. Excellent!" The rogue's player piped up, "Sure, but a one round casting time means the spell is super-nasty. If we don't kill or disrupt it, we're toast."

We spent the round wailing away at the hunefers, but they are tough beasts, and so next round the Epic Spell went off.

Then we got the second shock: The Epic spell only does 20d6 damage.

"That's it?" we gasped, our mouths hanging open in disbelief. "And you say there's a Fort save for half....and our SR might stop it too? You've got to be kidding...."

In the end, our SR on the Ftr did stop the Epic Spell cold. No damage...and even if there was damage, the Ftr could have easily taken 20d6 (which works out to 70 hp average).

Pathetic.

 

[Someone]

Not strange, since the epic spellcasting system doesn´t like combat spells. Increasing damage and decreasing casting time is expensive in points, but you can get big bonuses for increasing casting time, having a lot of helpers contributing with high-level spell slots and suffering damage (which isn´t a serious drawback if you can heal after casting)

 

[Nail]

Not strange, since the epic spellcasting system doesn´t like combat spells.

Making Epic Spells less powerful than normal spells within a combat setting is not strange?