PHB3 minotaur death blow

[Saeviomagy]

Handling it as an interrupt that stops you from getting hit would be a decent way to improve what is a fairly weak race as-is.

And there's plenty of defensive interrupts that prevent their trigger from occurring - it's really not an issue. Interrupts take place before their triggering action is resolved, not before it starts.

 

[Aulirophile]

Handling it as an interrupt that stops you from getting hit would be a decent way to improve what is a fairly weak race as-is.

And there's plenty of defensive interrupts that prevent their trigger from occurring - it's really not an issue. Interrupts take place before their triggering action is resolved, not before it starts.

No, there aren't. The trigger always occurs, it just doesn't resolve. These are not the same thing. Defensive Interrupts that respond to damage cannot negate the hit, because the hit already happened.

 

[Klaus]

When reduced to 0hp, the minotaur PC can strike a blow as an immediate Interrupt. Interrupts can prevent completion of the triggering action, that is how they differ from Reactions. That would mean that if the minotaur kills the person who took him to 0, he never got hit and takes no damage, creating a recursive loop? Or do you treat it as effectively a Reaction, so he still takes the damage?

The power interrupts the action of dropping to 0 hp or fewer (which would usually entail unconsciousness), not the actual attack that caused the drop.

Of course, if the minotaur has an item/ally/feat that grants it hp when he hits with an attack, the healing could bounce him back to positive hp.

 

[Saeviomagy]

No, there aren't. The trigger always occurs, it just doesn't resolve. These are not the same thing. Defensive Interrupts that respond to damage cannot negate the hit, because the hit already happened.

Then why can a defensive interrupt that responds to an attack negate the hit? If the trigger always occurs, then the hit must always occur, and if the hit occurs, then it's effects are applied. That's not what actually happens though.

P267 of the phb says "if an interrupt invalidates a triggering action, that action is lost". It also says "an immediate interrupt lets you jump in when a certain trigger condition arises, acting before the trigger resolves".

You are attacked. You are hit. You take damage causing your hitpoints to reach zero. You interrupt, killing your foe, which occurs before the hitpoint damage is resolved. Your foe is now dead, meaning he has no actions, and therefore his action is invalidated. He never makes the attack.

The alternate view is that "your hitpoints reach 0" is a seperate step to the whole of the rest of the attack, and therefore the attack is over and done before your hitpoints reach zero. That doesn't seem right to me.

 

[Aulirophile]

Then why can a defensive interrupt that responds to an attack negate the hit? If the trigger always occurs, then the hit must always occur, and if the hit occurs, then it's effects are applied. That's not what actually happens though.

P267 of the phb says "if an interrupt invalidates a triggering action, that action is lost". It also says "an immediate interrupt lets you jump in when a certain trigger condition arises, acting before the trigger resolves".

You are attacked. You are hit. You take damage causing your hitpoints to reach zero. You interrupt, killing your foe, which occurs before the hitpoint damage is resolved. Your foe is now dead, meaning he has no actions, and therefore his action is invalidated. He never makes the attack.

The alternate view is that "your hitpoints reach 0" is a seperate step to the whole of the rest of the attack, and therefore the attack is over and done before your hitpoints reach zero. That doesn't seem right to me.

The action is lost, not the trigger (the action that contains the trigger, specifically). And the hit doesn't happen because it doesn't resolve. It occurs, then you jump in, and the hit doesn't resolve. The rules are actually quite clear that there is a step between something happening and that thing doing anything. You never invalidate the trigger, the trigger always happens, but if you invalidate the trigger resolving, the action does not occur.

The attack process is explicit though, so that isn't what happens with the Minotaur racial. Once an attack has hit, the damage happens no matter what. The RC actually made it even clearer then it was.

 

[MatthewJHanson]

I think it was probably just a mistake to call in an interrupt. For most other creatures who get a free hit when the reach 0 hp, its not an action. (I.e. Dire Boar)

 

[S'mon]

I think it was probably just a mistake to call in an interrupt. For most other creatures who get a free hit when the reach 0 hp, its not an action. (I.e. Dire Boar)

Yes, I was just looking at the MV Orcs yesterday, with their 'savage demise' - 'take a standard action when reduced to 0hp'. To me that is simple, clear and easy to adjudicate. Whereas the minotaur wording gives me a recursive headache.

 

[Nichwee]

I think it was probably just a mistake to call in an interrupt. For most other creatures who get a free hit when the reach 0 hp, its not an action. (I.e. Dire Boar)

But monsters don't hang around once "dropped", PCs do - so a FreeAction/NoAction effect on monsters when they are dropped is a lot different than a PC being able to do an effect everytime they are hit such that their HP ends up below 0.

 

[Runestar]

As a PC, how often do you expect to see your hp dip to zero anyways?

For minotaur npcs, they are virtually guaranteed of using said power once/encounter, since you typically have to kill them to advance. But this ability clearly does not translate well as a PC power.

Has anyone managed to use it successfully?

 

[Aulirophile]

As a PC, how often do you expect to see your hp dip to zero anyways?

For minotaur npcs, they are virtually guaranteed of using said power once/encounter, since you typically have to kill them to advance. But this ability clearly does not translate well as a PC power.

Has anyone managed to use it successfully?

...Actually it wouldn't be all that difficult to have a Minotaur who got to use it every round they took damage after the monsters had gotten them low on their own. Can add in Stormhawk Vengeance while you're at it.

It'd require a semi-specific leader to accompany it, but would still be a neat trick. Wonder if you could do it with a whole party....