Philosophy of a Timeless Plane...

[RigaMortus]

Maybe "philosophy" isn't the right word... Maybe "physics" or "theories" would have been better. But anyway...

The characters in our current campaign have had some contact with the Astral Plane. I'm not too sure on how the rules work for the Astral Plane, so I'll let you know how we are running it in our campaign (some of this might be house ruled stuff we use, as opposed to how it really works in MotP).

Basically we have a magic item that lets us go into the Astral Plane. When in the Astral Plane, everything is Timeless. What are the affects of this Timelessness (again, this stuff may be customed to our game, so bare with me)?

1) We do not age while in the Astral Plane, and we do not heal naturally (although magical healing works).

2) Days still pass in the Astral Plane, so a Wizard can remem spells. Not sure about Divine casters that need to pray at a certain time of day.

3) When we exit the Astral Plane, via the same way we entered, we are instantly aged. So if we spend 1 year in the Astral Plane, we'd be 1 year older once we leave. If someone were to spend 1000 years in there, and then left it, they would drop dead and probably decompose and turn to ash.

4) Also when we leave, we appear back on the Prime and not a second has passed there. So while we may have been in the Astral Plane for a year, as soon as we leave it, those who saw us enter the portal will think we were in there for like 1 second.

Using those "rules" I have a question that I'd like your opinions on.

Let's say there is a person in the Astral Plane who has been there for about 15 years. Let's say our party encounters them and makes friends with him. Let's say he decided to leave the Astral Plane via the way he came in, through this magical device. Bam, he appears back in his own time, about 15 years earlier. Of course, the people that saw him enter the portal in his own time period think only a second went by. Now, let's say this person comes back to the Astral, would he see us there?

On the flip side, if we spend 2 days in the Prime, then go into the Astral, how much time has passed for them?

My puny human brain can not comprehend this logic...

 

[Maitre Du Donjon]

Great, just what we need, lessons in not changing history by Mr. I'm My Own Granpa

Sorry, I don't know why this quotation popped in my head...

As for your "situation", uh, I find it paradoxal that a) Time doesn't pass in the Astral Plane and b) You age by coming out of the Astral Plane while the Prime Material Plane hasn't changed. What it boils down to is that the Astral Plane isnt a Timeless Plane anymore, but more of a Plane where Time passes Infinitely Fast (relatively to the Prime Material Plane)...

Also, your rules concerning the Astral Plane seem to open up the Can O' Worms that can reprensent Time Travel (since the way you presented it, the example you give would be correct, IMO).

Anyways, unless you guys like really complicated stuff, you should perhaps change the way you play the Astral Plane...

A question: What happens to creatures that are born on the Astral Plane? They never age?

Maitre D

 

[Steverooo]

Yes and No

After re-emerging into the Time-stream, the fellow who had been there for 15 years would appear 15 years older, and probably not be perceived as the same person... If he re-entered the Astral, then yes, he would see you all there, as the relative position in the Temporal dimension makes no difference in a plane without time.

(Incidentally, this is, indeed, a can of worms, as someone from the past can enter the Astral with someone from the future, learn the future, then return to the past and prevent it. Etc.)

As for how much time passes in the Astral if two days pass outside, you already gave that answer. None: Time doesn't pass on the Astral Plane. He disappears through the portal, and then immediately reappears.

(Of course, the fact that the events in question did not occur simultaneously means that time does, indeed, exist in the Astral Plane, so...)

 

[Moe Ronalds]

I see that players will have the option of going adventuring on the astral plane for a few years to level up so that they can tackle the BBEG...

 

[clark411]

I'd guess that no time passed for the person on the Astral. The time of the Prime is separate from the Astral in that scenario, and the only way they interact is the "catch up" that happens when people leave the Astral.

As an aside, that seems like a really powerful item. What's the activation time on it? If it's anywhere near a single action to use, I'm picturing people in combat vanishing when out of spells, and reappearing with a full spell loadout specifically catered to the needs of the remainder of combat. Makes me shudder.

 

[RangerWickett]

So . . . um, that's just weird. Bob is chasing the evil bad guy, and the evil bad guy jumps into a portal to the Astral Plane. What is Bob to do?

a) Jump after the bad guy, in an attempt to defeat the villain no matter where he goes.

b) Wait and be ready in case the bad guy jumps back out and is more powerful than he was before.

c) Turn and run like heck, because odds are the bad guy will come back 20 levels higher.

d) Jump into the portal. Even though the bad guy will be returning instantaneously, he probably won't have a chance to shoot Bob before Bob makes it into the Astral Plane. Then, even if the bad guy tries to follow Bob back into the Astral Plane, he won't be able to get there before Bob comes back out, and Bob will be, like, 80 levels higher by then.



I think that whole "return as soon as you left" clause makes the Astral Plane unworkable.

 

[Someone]

If I got this right, the Astral works like an infinite Time Stop spell?

 

[GreyShadow]

Er... what they said.

Possible fix... A greater time elemental was killed while crossing the boundry of the Prime to the Astral and it created this temperal time disturbance. The disruption will soon end? did end? has ended? never happened?

Argh! I need a drink.

 

[apocalypstick]

... Using those "rules" I have a question that I'd like your opinions on.

Let's say there is a person in the Astral Plane who has been there for about 15 years. Let's say our party encounters them and makes friends with him. Let's say he decided to leave the Astral Plane via the way he came in, through this magical device. Bam, he appears back in his own time, about 15 years earlier. Of course, the people that saw him enter the portal in his own time period think only a second went by. Now, let's say this person comes back to the Astral, would he see us there?

On the flip side, if we spend 2 days in the Prime, then go into the Astral, how much time has passed for them?

My puny human brain can not comprehend this logic...

Ooh, I love stuff like this...

1: He would only see you if he hung around for another 15 years, waiting for you.

2: 2 days, but it's not "real-time."

This is just my take on it, of course... my interpretation of the guidelines you listed is that time does pass on the Astral, but it's a dilated effect. if it were a true stasis, your characters would never have been able to meet the guy who spent 15 years there. he would have been trapped in his "eternal moment" just as you would have been in yours.

Hmm... my head's starting to hurt too. Think of it this way:

Your friend goes into the astral plane in year 10. He spends 15 years there, and you enter in year 25. The two of you have tea and crumpets or whatever. He leaves, and *poof*, he's back in year 10. you leave, and *poof*, you're back in year 25.

If he enters the astral again, he's still entering in year 10, and if you enter the astral again, you're still entering 15 years later than he is. So he still has to wait another 15 years there for you.

Keep in mind that this friend from the past has also spent 30 years of his life waiting around for you in the Astral. He percieves it as real-time, although the Astral doesn't - but the Prime punishes him for "cheating time" by aging him when he returns. I wouldn't expect the guy to be too mentally stable the second time you meet up.

How's that sound? Did I miss anything?