Photos of the new Gnome (PHB2)

[ferratus]

Yeah, but we're talking about fantasy archetypes. Gnomes are a little soft and inoffensive looking not because that's realistic for an adventuring warrior, but because they're gnomes.

 

[lutecius]

Forget the looks: WotC seems to have a hard time understanding the different roles of the two races in question. Halflings strongly come off as "we're supposed to have a race called this in the PHB," and they have zero connection, besides their height, to the origin of the species.
I still think merging gnomes and halflings -- and going with the name most people around the world know -- would have been the better solution to begin with. Give one race all the fluff from both races, and it would have been better off, even with the substandard shorty race fluff WotC has come up with.

In other words, they can steal the flavour text of the hobbits without the problem of hobbits being sedentry trademark infringements. Their trickster personalities and sense of humour gives them plenty of reason to explore the world beyond their warrens. It would combine the best features of forest gnomes, kender, and halflings into one small race.

Then we can chuck the halflings who have become watered down boring mini-humans and we can make room for a more interesting demihuman race.

Agreed. If you can't find interesting and significantly different themes for both races, merge them and be done with it (the same goes for devils and demons imo.) I would have thought the idea would cause outrage among gnome lovers (the three of them), but even Whizbang seems ok with it.

Halfling could just be a name for young, beardless adventurers (in most pictures, old halflings look like gnomes and young gnomes like halflings anyway.)

Despite which, gnomes get a Charisma bonus and eladrin don't...

Eladrin aren't the only PH thing that don't have the fluff to support their rules.

Indeed, but I think Charisma is particularly problematic because it covers too many contradictory things. It doesn't make sense that hated races like tiefling and drow get a bonus to Diplomacy, that halfling and gnome get a bonus to Intimidate or that goblins get a bonus to either skill.

Also, I've always thought elf/eladrin should be the intuitive, Cha based caster (bard or sorcerer) and gnome the learned, Int based wizard.

The only reason folks are calling them "Mini-elves" is because they have pointy ears.
Don't most art depictions of fey have pointy ears? Pixies, brownies, sprites, sylphs, etc?.

But pixies, sprites, nymphs and dryads have all been explicitly described as elf-like in earlier editions, so it's fine to call them "tiny winged elves" or "tree-elf hotties".

If the new gnomes are thin, pointy-eared magical humans from the Feywild (aka eladrin/elves) and their only distinctive feature is being shorter, then they are mini-elves (with funny hairstyles).

You play around with body proportions, eye scale, ear length, skin tone, etc.

Yes. These gnomes would have been more striking if either of them had the unusual skin tone, hair color or facial hair mentioned in the description.

But I think the real problem is that they (and halflings, since 3e) are built like tall humans. Except for the background, there is no indication that they're small. They should have proportionally larger heads and extremities.

I think that people miss the point in a lot of ways...

I don't think the pictures are indicating that ALL gnomes are chisled and thin... Just adventurer types tend to be. For the same reason the human picture isn't a fatass shmuck.

These are people/things that wander off the beaten path into places of danger. When's the last time you saw an out of shape activly serving military guy?

And yet, compared to human adventurers, eladrin are frail and dwarves are tubby. Fantasy races seem to have different physiologies.

But I think you (and wotc) miss the point. I don't play small races but I suspect those who do like gnomes and hobbits precisely because they're not your typical adventurer. They are imperfect, comical, endearing antiheroes or unexpected villains.

Those who want bare-midriffed babes or badass athletes tend to play other races.
Gnomes will never be "cool", no matter how much leather you put on them (that doesn't mean they should all wear dresses like the one in MM1)

 

[Hella_Tellah]

I would have thought the idea would cause outrage among gnome lovers (the three of them), but even Whizbang seems ok with it.

I'm a gnome lover, and I thoroughly register my nerdrage at this idea.

The small races couldn't be more distinct in my mind. Gnomes are good-natured forest people with beards, conical hats, animal friends, and a penchant for illusions. Halflings live in shires, eat too much, have hairy feet, and are very courageous when they aren't too lazy to rise to the occasion. Brownies are hairy, evil fae, servants of Queen Mab of the Unseelie (Winter) Court, while pixies are beautiful, winged creatures with squeakie voices serving Queen Titania of the Seelie (Summer) Court. In A Midsummer Night's Dream, Puck is a brownie, while Queen Titania's retinue (Moth, Peasblossom, Cobweb and Mustardseed) are pixies. Redcaps murder travellers and die their hats with blood. Goblins steal your babies; sometimes they leave a fairy baby in its place, and that's a changeling.

Why D&D writers have decided to throw out all the wonderful strangeness of real-world myth and replace it with rubbish, I still don't understand.

 

[ferratus]

The small races couldn't be more distinct in my mind. Gnomes are good-natured forest people with beards, conical hats, animal friends, and a penchant for illusions. Halflings live in shires, eat too much, have hairy feet, and are very courageous when they aren't too lazy to rise to the occasion.

The Tolkien estate has something to say about the last part. That's the problem with the halflings as hobbits. The gnomes though are well poised to take over the good-living, burrow dwelling hobbits without the trademark infringement. Is there any reason gnomes can't have animal friends and cast illusions, yet live in warrens and eat too much?

That's the thing about the 4e gnomes. Despite the concept art, 4e mechanics do support warren dwelling illusionists with conical hats and animal friends just fine. In fact, 4e supports that archetype better than 3e because they can turn invisible when they get into trouble, and they ditched all the alchemy and tinker flavour baggage, and loosened the associations with bards.

 

[Hella_Tellah]

The Tolkien estate has something to say about the last part. That's the problem with the halflings as hobbits. The gnomes though are well poised to take over the good-living, burrow dwelling hobbits without the trademark infringement. Is there any reason gnomes can't have animal friends and cast illusions, yet live in warrens and eat too much?

Yeah, that's why I've never had high hopes for D&D halflings. I always think of them as Tolkein halflings, myself, but I understand why neither TSR nor WOTC could do that. But taking gnomes and making them hobbits ruins two good fantasy creatures, rather than having one lame one. The effect on the game, for me, is that I can't just say, "Okay, $New_Player, the book says halflings are sneaky river people with oblong alien heads, but that's stupid, so they're hobbits." Handing out hobbit bits to gnomes means that I have to re-explain two different races, which is double bad.

My little info packets for starting players are thick enough!

 

[I'm A Banana]

Why D&D writers have decided to throw out all the wonderful strangeness of real-world myth and replace it with rubbish, I still don't understand.

Generous Theory: D&D has always co-opted myth for game purposes, so since dragons are a rainbow of fruit flavors, they're OK with fey being nothing like their origins.

Conspiracy Theory: You can't copyright real-world myth, and if you try to duplicate the mystery of it within the context of a game, and without the millennium of development those myths got, it's going to be rubbish, but rubbish that you can copyright on the off-chance that some segment likes your rubbish.

 

[Keefe the Thief]

Counter-Conspiracy theory: "We made some up we though would be fun." Works with 90% of D&Ds "specialized" view on mythological creatures (like medusas as a race and not individuals etc.).

 

[Scribble]

And yet, compared to human adventurers, eladrin are frail and dwarves are tubby. Fantasy races seem to have different physiologies.

Dwarves are built more like heavyweight boxers. Designed for strength over speed. They're short with compact thick muscles. They have a con bonus. Where are you seeing tubby?

Elves/Eladrin are built with long thin muscles which is true to a race that has a dex bonus. They're built like runners.

Both races are commonly depicted in shape just in different ways.

But I think you (and wotc) miss the point. I don't play small races but I suspect those who do like gnomes and hobbits precisely because they're not your typical adventurer. They are imperfect, comical, endearing antiheroes or unexpected villains.

Those who want bare-midriffed babes or badass athletes tend to play other races.
Gnomes will never be "cool", no matter how much leather you put on them (that doesn't mean they should all wear dresses like the one in MM1)

It's not about "bare mid-drifted babes or badass athletes." It's about pictures that actually match the stats.

If you take the stats of the average D&D character, but then depict it with a dumpy overweight old man, you're not really doing an accurate representation. The two adventurers depicted are a bard and a warlock. Chances are both of them are going to have pretty decent stats, and pretty decent cons to boot.

You can depict the average gnome any way you want, but an adventurer probably isn't going to match it. Just like your average adventuring human isn't going to look like the average human. He's got to be in shape, otherwise he's not going to last that long.

The average D&D adventurer spends his time unable to overeat, walking long distances, fighting with weapons, dodging monsters, dodging weapons, and otherwise just being active. He's going to be in shape.

If this were a picture of some commoner gnomes in gnome village I might agree with you. But they're not, they're adventurers.

 

[Felon]

There was no visible difference between Halflings and Gnomes in the 3e PHB, aside from a slight variation of height. They looked exactly like short humans. Why people are complaining about this now like it's new, I don't know.

Oh wait, yeah I do. Because no matter what they did with gnomes, you can't make everyone happy. Someone would be upset. They're not tinker-enough (or TOO tinkery), or foresty enough (or TOO foresty), or too much emphasis on the pointy hats (or not ENOUGH), or too much pranksters, or whatever. No matter what, there's going to be at least some who say "THAT'S NOT A GNOME". Given that a gnome is a hodgepodge of about eighteen different notions.

I gotta go with Rechan on this one. I guess I would have liked to have to seen them with the little beards--it only takes a little thing like that to make them distinct from halflings. But a more radical change in appearance would have evoked much more indignation.

Personally, I'm going to focus on the gnome having interesting racial features that make them look unique and fun to play. As someone still on the fence with 4e, I put that in the "win" column.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Counter-Conspiracy theory: "We made some up *** we though would be fun." Works with 90% of D&Ds "specialized" view on mythological creatures (like medusas as a race and not individuals etc.).

...way to reword what I called the "generous theory," man.

Personally, I'm going to focus on the gnome having interesting racial features that make them look unique and fun to play. As someone still on the fence with 4e, I put that in the "win" column.

Indeediedoo. I don't need a necessarily dramatically distinct appearance...4e art has been narmworthy on more than one occasion, so I give it a pass. I like what the gnomes are psychologically and mechanically, and that is quite distinct (even if it's not what everyone wants them to be).