D&D 5E Pick only one: What should the next class be?

[billd91]

It wasn't just the Warlord, though it became the poster boy, it was that martial classes got encounter and Daily powers, that they were, all-round, closer than ever to balanced with the traditional casters.
The core of the edition war was always class balance: every complaint, however dressed up in newly-minted terminology and blazing nerdrage boiled down to begrudging anyone playing a martial concept anything close to parity with a supernatural concept.

That's your take on it as a partisan in the edition war. There are quite a few of us with a different view of it.

The warlord got bound up in one major problem that people had with 4e - the healing surge mechanic vs hp as meat. Hit points as meat has been around a lot longer than the criticism leveled at 4e - at least back to 1e. It never mattered how it was described in the rules as involving skill, luck, and a certain je ne sais quoi, there was always a substantial proportion of the community that described all hits as gore and there probably always will be. When healing required time or magic, even if natural healing time was unrealistically fast, nobody really had that concept confronted like with healing surges. Healing surges flew right in the face of that concept.

That wasn't the only problem people had with healing surges - there were others around the specifics of the mechanic in other ways, even by people who didn't consider hit points to just be meat - but I thought that was the biggest issue with the warlord.

 

[Tony Vargas]

That's your take on it as a partisan in the edition war. There are quite a few of us with a different view of it.

It's my experience of it. Anytime we started digging into the reasons h4ters gave, and what it would take to render 4e acceptable, no matter what other compromises were offered, it came down to restoring class imbalance. No alternate visualization or explanation, no mechanical tweak was acceptable unless it removed versatility/power from martial characters.

5e, as Hussar likes pointing out, kept many mechanics and conceptual bits from 4e. At-will, short & long rest, abilities, limited-use martial abilities, shouty healing, overnight healing, healing-surges bowdlerized as HD, and so forth.
It also restored class imbalance, taking resources, options and flexibility away from the non-magical sub-classes that remained, and expanding resources & power, and vastly increasing the versatility of casters.

The warlord got bound up in one major problem that people had with 4e - the healing surge mechanic vs hp as meat. Hit points as meat has been around a lot longer than the criticism leveled at 4e - at least back to 1e.

Hit points as meat was a thing back in 1e, and EGG had a long treatise in the DMG that demolished it. Because meat-hps were an undue, overblown criticism of D&D, used by people who disliked the game, to mock it.

Healing surges flew right in the face of that concept.

And so do HD, and overnight healing in 5e, yet there's no edition warring against it.

 

[billd91]

It's my experience of it. Anytime we started digging into the reasons h4ters gave, and what it would take to render 4e acceptable, it came down to restoring class imbalance. No alternate visualization or explanation, no mechanical tweak was acceptable unless it removed versatility/power from martial characters.

You're free to rationalize it however you want to fit your narrative.

Hit points as meat was a thing back in 1e, and EGG had a long treatise in the DMG that demolished it. Because meat-hps were an undue, overblown criticism of D&D, used by people who disliked the game, to mock it.

Nothing ever is or was demolished just because Gygax says. The habits people take on when they start playing often persist.

And so do HD, and overnight healing in 5e, yet there's no edition warring against it.

The DMG also includes options for people to adjust those dials and, judging from commentary here on the boards, plenty do.

 

[Tony Vargas]

You're free to rationalize it however you want to fit your narrative.

I'm not mak'n it up. The "oh we're so upset about not being able to use meat hps anymore" was the rationalization. As evidence, meat hps aren't any 'better-supported' in 5e, yet that's no longer a problem. Because it was never really the problem, just a stalking horse, a talking point.

The habits people take on when they start playing often persist.

Sure, and really unexamined, you could get used to thinking about 'damage' as being wounds without thinking about what that would mean for increasing hps with every level. But, really, if you're that casual, that you can't be bothered thinking about where those extra hps come from, why should you worry about how they come back?

The DMG also includes options for people to adjust those dials and, judging from commentary here on the boards, plenty do.

Overnight short rests & week-long long rests? They don't really make a big difference though, conceptually, and were among the ideas floated - and rejected - in the edition war. But, in 5e, with classes closer to their traditional forms, it's become acceptable.

Sure, there are still people who grouse a bit about HD & overnight healing, even with the 'gritty' option, but they're not edition warring against 5e over it.

 

[Charlaquin]

It was a Martial/Primal dual-Source sub-class. It's best control - OP daily 'utilities' like Stalker's Mist - were Primal invocations.

True that.

 

[Charlaquin]

The EGG-man was objectively correct about HP, don’t @me.

 

[Laurefindel]

From that list, only the Psion strikes me as having enough potential new material to become a class of its own; others can easily be done as archetypes/subclasses.

But then again, perhaps someone could bring something new to the game using one of those class propositions. Shaman as a divine warlock spinoff with nature/ghost/astral themes? Rune Priest as a non-spellcasting class but creating magical effects? Warden as non-spellcasting shapeshifter? Warlord as an arcane half-caster (the only real "omission" in the PHB classes, for the better or for the worse).

 

[Tony Vargas]

The EGG-man was objectively correct about HP, don’t @me.

As 'objective' as one could get with totally made up stuff like that - it was his darn system.

 

[Undrave]

Warden would make a GREAT Barbarian I think.

You can do warlordy or marshally things by expanding the types of maneuvers used by the battlemaster.

The Battlemaster is a poor fit for the Warlord because it's too selfish and too limited. It focuses too hard on the extra damage and too little on the tactical options.

A Lazylord could grant an attack action to an ally EVERY turn (in a game where you had a reaction PER TURN and not per round, mind you). An Inspiring Warlord could grant temp HP EVERY turn.

Ironically, the Mastermind Rogue's ability to use Help as a Bonus Action is closer to the feel of a Warlord. Smashing the two into one Fighter subclass MIGHT work better.

Still, the Battlemaster's Goading Attack should just be a basic power of the Fighter (minus the extra damage) so they can properly incite others to attack them instead of their friends.

 

[Coroc]

Wow i did swim with the stream