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<blockquote data-quote="Umbran" data-source="post: 9423003" data-attributes="member: 177">See above, I edited some notes into my previous post - murder mystery games were going on in the 1920s, for example.And I think you need to be careful of the difference between &quot;derived from,&quot; &quot;inspired by,&quot; and &quot;influenced by&quot; in such a discussion.It would be hard to say that anything created in the western world after 1980 or so could definitively be said to be absolutely and entirely independent of D&amp;D, insofar as D&amp;D became a household term.&nbsp; Even folks who had never seen the books, but had been told about sitting around a table and playing a game in which you took on the role of a character could be said to be &quot;not independent&quot; after that point.That'd be like saying that there's a sci-fi movie out there after about 1980 that was completely and totally independent of Star Wars.But I think that level of nitpicking is 1) kind of a gotcha, and 2) rather unfair to noting the creativity of those who aren't doing the D&amp;D thing.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Umbran, post: 9423003, member: 177"] See above, I edited some notes into my previous post - murder mystery games were going on in the 1920s, for example. And I think you need to be careful of the difference between "derived from," "inspired by," and "influenced by" in such a discussion. It would be hard to say that anything created in the western world after 1980 or so could definitively be said to be [I]absolutely and entirely independent[/I] of D&D, insofar as D&D became a household term. Even folks who had never seen the books, but had been told about sitting around a table and playing a game in which you took on the role of a character could be said to be "not independent" after that point. That'd be like saying that there's a sci-fi movie out there after about 1980 that was [I]completely and totally independent[/I] of Star Wars. But I think that level of nitpicking is 1) kind of a gotcha, and 2) rather unfair to noting the creativity of those who aren't doing the D&D thing. [/QUOTE]

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